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Post by Aussie Rob on Feb 15, 2008 9:18:32 GMT -5
Obama imo.
Hillary has too much baggage and in a head to head race with McCain is vulnerable imo. Although she could still win as this is pretty much the u8nlosable election for the dems. The country is sick of conserative republicans for a while, and that's what McCain represents....just more of the same.
McCain used to have what it takes, but he's not the man he used to be. Changed his position on too many things, and has been Bush's pregnant dog for too long.
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Post by sarajean on Feb 15, 2008 9:28:19 GMT -5
I hope it's a race between Obama and McCain.
I'm not particularly fond of any of the candidates, but Hillary's attempt at nationalizing health care during her husband's presidency really turned me off. I don't want my health care system controlled by the people who brought us FEMA. (Obama's plan seems more sensible.)
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Post by Angie on Feb 15, 2008 9:50:46 GMT -5
Ok.. I have to give my 2 cents. I am a little tired of the media talking about the Clinton nationalized health care plan... the plan that she has layed out on the table is NOT socialized medicine and it is not the same as the plan that was proposed during the bill clinton years. My husband is a physician so we have paid especially close attention to the details of these plans. The current Obama and clinton plans are not that different. I challenge people to stop listening to the media and do research on your own by going to the candidates websites and places like factcheck.org. This is how you find out the real facts. www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/theyve_got_you_covered.html
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Post by jetlink on Feb 15, 2008 10:56:35 GMT -5
I really don't know myself.....I mean I have been waiting and waiting and waiting for many years for the ideal candidate to come around.....I guess I'll still have to wait. All I'm asking is that the next candidate for the popularity contest....ummm...i mean presidency - well, all I'm asking is that they make the following issues part of their platform:
1) Change - Can we please get a candidate who promises change. 2) Budget - Can we please get a candidate who wants to balance it. 3) Future - Can we please get a candidate who wants to look forward into the future. 4) Health Care - Can we please get a candidate who wants to "fix" it.
Obama - Clinton - McCain.......all I need now is a three-sided coin!!
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Post by Matt Luck on Feb 15, 2008 11:11:53 GMT -5
not a huge McCain fan, but Clinton scares me
Government mandatory health care is socialized health care.
FYI, Hillary states on air with George Stephonopolis: "I support the government garnishment of wages in order to force people to comply with my health care plan."
What happens when the government tells me I must live in a predetermined house and drive the car they say I should.
I agree with Dave, fix it.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Feb 15, 2008 11:17:28 GMT -5
1) Change - Can we please get a candidate who promises change. 2) Budget - Can we please get a candidate who wants to balance it. 3) Future - Can we please get a candidate who wants to look forward into the future. 4) Health Care - Can we please get a candidate who wants to fix it He might not be perfect, but Obama seems pretty close to that wish list, assuming he sticks to his platform. As far as health care goes. The current system is a joke. Richest nation in the world can't provide affordable health care to its citizens. It's disgraceful. 4 years ago my wife lost her job (and in turn her insurance), and happened to get sick at the same time. We still have 13 months to go before her bankruptcy is discharged. Nationally subsidized health care is a good thing. They government doesn't have to control it directly, just kick in for the bills and reign in costs. I grew up in a country where if i got sick, it didn't cost my family the house to pay the bills....and Australia's health care is first rate. I think Americans are unreasonably afraid of government subsidized health care.
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Post by jetlink on Feb 15, 2008 11:42:54 GMT -5
Rob,
Sorry to hear about your situation. It is really poor that good, honest tax-paying citizens cannot get adequate healthcare at times.....this really sucks.
As for my platform wishes.......ok, ok I was being sarcastic. Isn't this every politician's platform....just look over the past few elections - its the same story. Reminds me of one of those dolls in which you pull the cord and it repeats itself......I swear that is why we never get a nice, clear picture of the back of the politicians - there is a really thick cord back there....I know it.
As for my vote - I'm torn.....I really like Ron Paul but he is a bit too radical. Just listen to the guy talk or better yet check out his voting record.....I love a politician that will never vote yes on a bill with an earmark.....Ron Paul hasn't.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Feb 15, 2008 11:48:15 GMT -5
I see what you mean.
As the old saying goes - it doesn't matter who you vote for, you always get a politician.
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Post by Angie on Feb 15, 2008 12:03:41 GMT -5
I know... all politicians are the same... I am really not happy with any of the choices either but my concern is that we get someone who can actually improve things instead of looking good and making nice speeches.
ANGIE
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Post by TimAckley on Feb 15, 2008 12:17:00 GMT -5
Angie,
That was a good site.. TY for posting that..
Healthcare in general:
I would heavily favor a canidate that would work to "change" and not just talk about Private Healthcare Premiums. When a canidate uses the term "a similiar plan" to me it means a election promise that is just that and is going no where in a hurry once elected.
Similiar comes with more dollars I think especially if you might want eye, dental and presrciption coverage and especially if you meet there "Healthy Person" standards.
The Cancer discrimintion by health care providers is something I think should be stopped. I pay a huge premium each month due to the fact my son at the age of two had cancer. He is nine years out of treatment and it does not matter one bit to them, they just see potential costs to them at a later date. Besides the huge premium, you usually have a deductable also.
Small business owners should be given a huge break on health care premiums, especially since our high taxed dollars are used to keep others with very nice health care plans that do not cost them much out of pocket costs.
I am Republican, but I find myself favoring Obama a little which I never thought would happen.. I was really leaning towards Edwards, maybe he can be Obama's VP... Just not happy with any of the Rep. canidates this year...
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Post by alison on Feb 15, 2008 13:24:52 GMT -5
I hear some people saying they are not really happy with any candidate. Then why are you considering which one to vote for? Why has the presidential election become a situation of voting for the lesser of two evils, rather than voting for someone you think would do a good job? If election day roles around and I am not convinced by either the Republican or Democratic candidate I plan on voting for one of the smaller party candidates (so long as they are not too radical, of course). Too many people think that by voting for someone that doesn't have a chance of winning they are wasting their vote, and that is far from the truth. If you are not happy with what the two dominating parties have to offer then use your voice to say that, buy putting your vote somewhere else.
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Post by TimAckley on Feb 15, 2008 13:45:03 GMT -5
Alison,
I do not know the answer to my question myself and I do not mean this to sound harsh either..
But when was the last time a President who was elected was not a Dem. or a Rep.?
Just curious...
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Post by alison on Feb 15, 2008 14:42:00 GMT -5
The point isn't trying to get a non- Dem or Rep elected, but rather to stop showing support for things you are not happy with. No doubt our next president will be a Dem or Rep, but if enough people refuse to vote for one of those two parties the numbers can make a statement that the American people are not content with the way things are. Your vote is your voice, don't wait for someone taking a poll to come around so you can say you didn't like either, say it with your vote. That is all I am trying to say.
Looking online I see the last president that was not a Dem or Rep was Fillmore in 1850, he was a Whig. Dunno how accurate that is.
Alison
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Post by MattCollister on Feb 15, 2008 15:15:21 GMT -5
Rob, I don't think anyone accuses John McCain of being GW's bitc%. Particularly not the arch conservatives who continue to champion Bush. (I saw something about Ann Coulter hoping McCain would lose so Hillary or Obama can come in, "ruin everything," and ensure a conservative resurgance in 2012). And there's the rub for Republicans.
Well, I in no way drink from the same well as a shrill like Ann Coulter, but I do think that a centrist (relatively) Republican candidate who has no strong appeal to the far right changes a lot of the dynamic that we saw in 2004. Bush won swing states like Ohio because he was able to mobilize the evangelical christians in the heartland. And it was oh so close! Will they turn out in the same numbers for John McCain? What'll the Republicans do when the rubber meets the road?
Jesus, I've been watching too much Wolf Blitzer.
Tim, this is like Jeopardy... " What is 1788?"
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Post by TimAckley on Feb 15, 2008 15:29:20 GMT -5
Alison,
Couldn't agree with more, that more people should vote for the so called underdog in certain cirrcumstances.. and more people should pay more attention to local issues too.. I just think the underdog does not stand a chance when Dems. and Reps. are being back by some of the most powerful people in the US..
But if they ever changed the rule allowing a person not born in the US to run for President, even just for one person.. My vote would go for Gov. of California... Arnold...
Matt... That might be the right answer.. but you exceeded the time limit.. Sorry but that's an "incorrect answer"
The things you can find to do while sitting on the trainer with your phone....
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Post by michaelfenoff on Feb 15, 2008 15:43:48 GMT -5
not a huge McCain fan, but Clinton scares me Government mandatory health care is socialized health care. FYI, Hillary states on air with George Stephonopolis: "I support the government garnishment of wages in order to force people to comply with my health care plan." What happens when the government tells me I must live in a predetermined house and drive the car they say I should. For the most part i agree with you Coach Luck. I know that you usually side to the right, and so do I. The way i see it. The most gov't sponsered things we have, the more money the taxpayers are going to have to pay out. Denmark currently pays the gov't 60% of their earnings to the gov't. The Dems are using that european ideology and bringing it over here. I'm sorry, but when i get out of college i don't want to have to pay 60% of my paycheck to Hillary or Obama, just so that they can give it to everyone else for thier medical problems. It will turn our country into a socialist economy where everyone looks to the gov't for everything. I'm not down for that. I think that if you work hard, you deserve to keep your money. On a more personal note. If you have 60% of your wages going to the gov't, and have to pay mortgage, car payments, food and support the family, I don't think many of us are going to have enough to go out and do triathlon anymore. Yes we can train, but paying that $450 Ironman fee doesn't seem so doable anymore.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Feb 15, 2008 15:58:51 GMT -5
Comparing Australia to the USA for a second.
Aus has far better social services than the US does, including medicine, yet the taxes are only marginally higher (im talking only a couple of percentage points). So your doom and gloom scenario isn't really a reality Micheal. Not to mention the euros you cite seem to be doing a hell of a lot better than Americans right now, even with their crippling tax rates.
The problem isn't with tax rates, it's with the mismanagement of money that seems to be rampant in Washington. Furthermore, it isn't just dems that raise taxes (are we even sure thats on the table this election?), reps do it too. Read my lips, no new taxes.
You're right Matt, McCain isn't Bush's pregnant dog....but he did roll over on issues i thought he felt strongly about. I think his problem is that he's trying to be too many things to too many people....and all he's doing is alienating the lot of them.
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Post by MattCollister on Feb 15, 2008 16:47:04 GMT -5
You're right Matt, McCain isn't Bush's pregnant dog....but he did roll over on issues i thought he felt strongly about. I think his problem is that he's trying to be too many things to too many people....and all he's doing is alienating the lot of them. ...I guess the question is, does that make him a "Slick Willie" or a "Flip Flopper"?
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Post by MattCollister on Feb 15, 2008 16:53:16 GMT -5
On a more personal note. If you have 60% of your wages going to the gov't, and have to pay mortgage, car payments, food and support the family, I don't think many of us are going to have enough to go out and do triathlon anymore. Yes we can train, but paying that $450 Ironman fee doesn't seem so doable anymore. So how do you explain the number of Europeans participating in Ironman triathlons?
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Post by MattCollister on Feb 15, 2008 16:57:01 GMT -5
The way i see it. The most gov't sponsered things we have, the more money the taxpayers are going to have to pay out. Denmark currently pays the gov't 60% of their earnings to the gov't. The Dems are using that european ideology and bringing it over here. I'm sorry, but when i get out of college i don't want to have to pay 60% of my paycheck to Hillary or Obama, just so that they can give it to everyone else for thier medical problems. It will turn our country into a socialist economy where everyone looks to the gov't for everything. I'm not down for that. I think that if you work hard, you deserve to keep your money. But you feel okay about Bush, Cheney et.al spending $200MM of our money each day in Iraq?
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Post by Angie on Feb 15, 2008 20:39:18 GMT -5
But you feel okay about Bush, Cheney et.al spending $200MM of our money each day in Iraq? Nice point Matt. No one is proposing taking 60% of your salary for medical coverage. If you don't like the current health care system, blame the health insurance and pharmaceutical companies... they are largely to blame for high costs and are making record profits. I can tell you it is not trickling down to the physicians. At least at the primary care level.
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Post by Jack Carney on Feb 15, 2008 23:26:21 GMT -5
Im with Michael. I am already tired of giving my money to the government and lets face it a big part of the current problem with healthcare is the government and the regulations and mountainous amounts of paperwork. Rob I don't know anything about Australia but our taxes here are already out of hand and spending is wasteful. As far as current quality, if we do not have the best health care why do the wealthy in other countries all come here for care?
McCain was not my first choice but I will take him over either Hillary or Obama. He understands the security issues and is committing to lowering taxes AND spending. I don't like his stand on illegal immigrants and hope he is pressured to be tougher on that front.
R's may have raised taxes way back when but all D's will do it. They will tell you it is only on the rich but if you believe that you are in a dream world. The middle class will absorb all tax increases as they always do. And the threshhold of what is considered "rich" may surprise those of you that don't feel rich but will be classified that way by those who want your money.
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Post by michaelfenoff on Feb 15, 2008 23:32:28 GMT -5
But you feel okay about Bush, Cheney et.al spending $200MM of our money each day in Iraq? Personally, I do support Iraq, I have since the beginning, The plan is that i'm going to become an officer in the Marines after I get done with college. I have seen what kind of crap the military gets with the pennies that get given to them. Most of them put their lives on the line for less than 30 grand a year. They deserve the money. But i do agree that there is too much frivolous spending going on in Washington, but I don't think Iraq or the Military is one of them. I don't think I am going to say anything more on the subject or politics in general. When I got into the sport I told myself that I would keep the two separate. We are a generally nice group of people and we don't need crap like politics coming between us.
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Post by michaelfenoff on Feb 15, 2008 23:43:29 GMT -5
So how do you explain the number of Europeans participating in Ironman triathlons? I actually want to answer this also. Europeans are currently experiencing an economic surge. Okay, great, but thats not here. Based on our current situation, if our taxes are raised to an unbelievable level, which they will be if national healthcare is implemented (doctors and pharm. companies are not going to lower their prices so the money has to come from somewhere.) We are going to be paying that out of our pockets from our "play" money. Unless you want to go and downgrade your house, car, eat ramen noodles or somehow get rid of bills, your going to have to take that money from somewhere. The way i've been brought up, play is the first thing to go. I know that I'm not going to change minds here, but at least take this into consideration when you go to the polls in November. This will be the first time I get to vote for a pres and I feel like a lot of my future is in this next presidents hands. Oh, and I like McCain's stance on the war. Lets finish it and get out of there. And for you who don't have the inside scoop on the war. Baghdad is the only hotspot left and the enemy is slowly dying to the point where we should be out by winning by end of this year or middle of next year.
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Post by Charlie on Feb 16, 2008 0:38:16 GMT -5
McCain is being hung out to dry...think back to Bob Dole. I think the only GOP that can become president next January is Dick Chaney...Yeah, I am paranoid of this.
As far as health care goes, I believe in public education. Why should health care be any less of a priority to us? Private care will still be available.
If I have success, while others in my family/community/City/State/nation/world continue to suffer, then I have failed.
As far as the war is concerned, the Democrats back the war. They passed Bush's spending bill for the war. They show no desire to end it before it is secure.
I don't believe the current GOP has practiced any form of fiscal responsibility. We will have to pay for the the out of control spending that GW has practiced. The war is not cheap, as Matt recalled. I am leaning toward Bill's wife because I look back favorably on Clinton's handling of our budget. I am hopeful she can assemble a similar administration. However I trust her the least of the three.
I am concerned that Obama lacks experiance in administration. I do think he can rally the nation.
As Nixon's Watergate mishap opened the door for Carter, And Clinton's perjury made a GWBush administration possible, GWB has put our bigoted, sexist nation into a position where a black or a women will most likely become president. IRONICMAN! I guess George is good for something.
I think who ever becomes president in 11 months will only last one term.
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Post by Charlie on Feb 16, 2008 0:48:25 GMT -5
But i do agree that there is too much frivolous spending going on in Washington, but I don't think Iraq or the Military is one of them. If the spending for this war was limited to our military, I would feel better about the war. Unfortunately the private contracts are huge. I would be willing to bet if we cut the private sector from the war, we would be out in six months. Just a hunch.
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Post by Brian Luther on Feb 16, 2008 3:10:15 GMT -5
If our government continues with the status quo, I may just move back to Europe and find my distant relatives and get back to my "true roots"..............
Bush and Chenney, were foaming at the mouth to go to war, and the end result is that our tax money is paying for the mess they made.......
9/11 was a true calling for Americans to tell our Government, that we need accountability and true leadership. To support our military in "our own country" and become a more unified nation. Instead, we ran overseas and started shaking our fists. We should never force Democracy onto other countries, and expect them to be happy with our ways.
I do "hope" we get someone in the Oval Office that can start rebuilding our, Country,Government, and focus on the people. Its not going to happen over night, and we all need to step and do our part...........
Brian
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Post by MattCollister on Feb 16, 2008 8:05:20 GMT -5
Mike, to be clear I am not against our military people being paid a decent wage. It's the boilerplate right wing argument - you're against the war and you're against the troops. Bull. I am against money being pissed away senselessly. $200MM is among the more conservative estimates, by the way.
AS for a year and a half, it seems like we've heard that sort of prediction before. Around five years ago.
"Mission Accomplished" anyone?
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Post by TimAckley on Feb 16, 2008 10:02:51 GMT -5
Brian,
Bush and Chenney did not create a mess, they are cleaning up a mess from a person who did nothing from 1993-2000 and they are making sure you are safe here at home.. and thats going to take tax dollar to do... They are showing leadership by taking the fight to them... far better there, than here.. I do agree with you that we should not push our Gov. ways on them.. but the majority of the people over there want to be free from a dictatorship.. but until they can come up with there own method something has to be put inplace..
Mike...
Good for you becoming an Officer.. Semper Fi... and Good luck to you..
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Post by Aussie Rob on Feb 16, 2008 10:14:29 GMT -5
I never said the quality was bad, just that it’s outrageous that millions of American’s cant have access to it without going broke. That said, lots of people come to Australia for treatment too (and Canada, and the UK etc), but that’s neither here nor there. The government has a responsibility to take care of its citizens, and the US is failing here. Care to bet your bike on that?
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