|
Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 2, 2008 18:10:07 GMT -5
Hey, the EPA rocks! Right Durno!
|
|
|
Post by Brian Luther on Mar 4, 2008 0:11:14 GMT -5
Yo Folks! ;D
Let the voting begin!
Will Hillary dominate Ohio?
Might it be an Obamanation?
Will McCain beat out Dennis Kucinich?
Good Luck to All!
Brian
|
|
|
Post by Jack Carney on Mar 4, 2008 8:00:13 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by MarkD on Mar 4, 2008 10:16:11 GMT -5
Yep. EPA certainly rocks. Of course, I don't work on climate change issues, although I find the subject fascinating, 'cause you truly can spin it both ways. I deal with more immediate issues like cleaning up hazardous waste. If you want to read an interesting "cross-breed" of a book on climate change, read Michael Crieghton's "State of Fear". Its a fictional book that uses actual facts to show both sides of the climate change argument. The fictional story sucks - it really does - way to far fetched - even for Crieghton. His epilogue, though, discusses his personal views on climate change - its pretty good. One of my favorite quotes is from his epilogue, which reads: "Environmental work should be done in the environment, not from behind a computer screen". Outstanding !
|
|
|
Post by benmiralia on Mar 4, 2008 11:38:56 GMT -5
Whatever your opinion on the subject may be it won't matter a bit if you don't go out and vote.
|
|
|
Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 4, 2008 13:22:50 GMT -5
The irony of my participation in this thread is that im not eligible to vote!
TWC founder guy has been around for ages, and he flies in the face of the scientific community on the subject.
|
|
|
Post by Brandon on Mar 4, 2008 13:47:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the book recommendation Mark. Sounds like Creighton isn't a fan of modeling. Can't say I blame him. I suppose if this was a environmental science forum, we could get into a heated discussion about the accuracy of computer models.
I guess that I had to get one more comment in on this thread before it loses it's mass appeal (or mass annoyance).....at least until the fall.
Hope everyone exercises (their right to vote) today!
|
|
|
Post by elizabeth on Mar 4, 2008 16:28:44 GMT -5
Ahh model vs not modeling, now we are talking about something I understand Models are great if used correctly, but most of the time, the problem is apparent, and a lot of the time even the solutions to solve the problem are apparent so it seems that while that modeling is going on someone should be out on the ground taking action. Regardless of everyone's opinions on global warming I would find it very hard to believe that anyone thinks the way we treat the planet is acceptable. As someone who runs outside downtown I can tell you that I know that what is going into my lungs every day is not high quality O2! Actually was allowed to vote today. 3rd try must be the charm. I won't keep my hopes too high for November since the last time I successfully voted was also a primary.
|
|
|
Post by Charlie on Mar 4, 2008 19:06:13 GMT -5
Maybe we could hold elections in July. If I won't run outside, I find it difficult to believe that a lot of people would ice skate to the polls today.
|
|
|
Post by Brian Luther on Mar 5, 2008 8:55:19 GMT -5
Hillary Clinton is on a roll...... No stopping her now! ;D
|
|
|
Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 5, 2008 9:32:33 GMT -5
Except that shes still behind on delegates, and is pegged to lose to McCain in a head to head race. If you're a dem, and you want a dem Pres, you should be pulling for Obama. Very similar platform and ideology, but with polling giving him a much better shot at beating McCain in the general.
|
|
|
Post by Brian Luther on Mar 5, 2008 11:11:51 GMT -5
Rush Limbaugh, he may have influenced the vote..... Asking listners to cross over party lines to vote for Hillary.... The republicans had nothing to lose, and may have gained control by this tactic....... Its a bit pathetic that this can happen, yet it did last night. Yes the "first time voters like Obahma..... Will they show up again and vote when its the "true presidential race"...... ? Did Hillary win on her own last night? I can not say for certain....
|
|
|
Post by watchman on Mar 6, 2008 9:40:49 GMT -5
Here is an interesting article on McCain. I copied it below. I never knew this. I have not been a big fan of his but this makes me consider being one.
On October 26, 1967, McCain was flying as part of a 20-plane attack against a thermal power plant in central Hanoi, a heavily defended target area that had previously been off-limits to U.S. raids. McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a Soviet-made SA-2 anti-aircraft missile while pulling up after dropping its bombs. McCain fractured both arms and a leg in being hit and ejecting from his plane. He nearly drowned after he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi. After he regained consciousness, a mob gathered around him, spat on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. Others crushed his shoulder with the butt of a rifle and bayoneted him in his left foot and abdominal area; he was then transported to Hanoi's main prison. Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to put him in the hospital, deciding he would soon die anyway. They beat and interrogated him, but McCain only offered his name, rank, serial number, and date of birth. Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care and announce his capture. At this point, two days after McCain's plane went down, that event and his status as a POW made the front page of The New York Times. Follow up: McCain spent six weeks in a hospital, receiving marginal care, was interviewed by a French television reporter whose report was carried on CBS, and was observed by a variety of North Vietnamese, including the famous General Vo Nguyen Giap. Many of the North Vietnamese observers assumed that he must be part of America's political-military-economic elite. Now having lost 50 pounds, in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white, McCain was sent to a prisoner-of-war camp in Hanoi in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week (one was Bud Day, a future Medal of Honor recipient); they nursed McCain and kept him alive. In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would be for two years. In July 1968, McCain's father was named Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command (CINCPAC), stationed in Honolulu and commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater. McCain was immediately offered a chance to return home early: the North Vietnamese wanted a mercy-showing propaganda coup for the outside world, and a message that only privilege mattered that they could use against the other POWs. McCain turned down the offer of repatriation due to the Code of Conduct of "first in, first out": he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well. McCain's refusal to be released was even remarked upon by North Vietnamese officials to U.S. envoy Averell Harriman at the ongoing Paris Peace Talks. In August 1968, a program of vigorous torture methods began on McCain, using rope bindings into painful positions and beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery. Teeth and bones were broken again as was McCain's spirit; the beginnings of a suicide attempt was stopped by guards. After four days of this, McCain signed an anti-American propaganda "confession" that said he was a "black criminal" and an "air pirate", although he used stilted Communist jargon and ungrammatical language to signal the statement was forced. He would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine." His injuries to this day have left him incapable of raising his arms above his head. His captors tried to force him to sign a second statement, and this time he refused. He received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal. Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions". On one occasion when McCain was physically coerced to give the names of members of his squadron, he supplied them the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line. On another occasion, a guard surreptitiously loosened McCain's painful rope bindings for a night; when he later saw McCain on Christmas Day, he stood next to McCain and silently drew a cross in the dirt with his foot (decades later, McCain would relate this Good Samaritan story during his presidential campaigns, as a testament to faith and humanity). McCain refused to meet with various anti-war peace groups coming to Hanoi, such as those led by David Dellinger, Tom Hayden, and Rennie Davis, not wanting to give either them or the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory based on his connection to his father. In October 1969, treatment of McCain and the other POWs suddenly improved, after a badly beaten and weakened POW who had been released that summer disclosed to the world press the conditions to which they were being subjected. In December 1969, McCain was transferred to Hoa Loa Prison, which later became famous via its POW nickname of the "Hanoi Hilton". McCain continued to refuse to see anti-war groups or journalists sympathetic to the North Vietnamese regime; to one visitor who did speak with him, McCain later wrote, "I told him I had no remorse about what I did, and that I would do it over again if the same opportunity presented itself." McCain and other prisoners were moved around to different camps at times, but conditions over the next several years were generally more tolerable than they had been before. Altogether McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years. The Paris Peace Accords were signed on January 27, 1973, ending direct U.S. involvement in the war, but the Operation Homecoming arrangements for POWs took longer; McCain was finally released from captivity on March 15, 1973, having been a POW for almost an extra five years due to his refusal to accept the out-of-sequence repatriation offer.
|
|
|
Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 6, 2008 10:07:29 GMT -5
Cool article, got a source?
No doubt he is a war hero and a great man, but that doesn't mean he'll be a good President.
|
|
|
Post by watchman on Mar 6, 2008 10:25:26 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 6, 2008 13:59:19 GMT -5
Thats true, and i agree the man has character. Frankly, although i would like to see Obama win (the man has character too) i'd be ok with McCain being pres, as long as he figures out his economic policy, because as of right now it's severely lacking.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Carney on Mar 6, 2008 14:08:21 GMT -5
Cool article, got a source? No doubt he is a war hero and a great man, but that doesn't mean he'll be a good President. Guess we'll have to wait until November to find out. Courage and loyalty are pretty good qualities. And while I dont think it should necessarily be a requirement, honorable service to your country in the military looks good on the resume.
|
|
|
Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 6, 2008 14:42:00 GMT -5
My beef with McCain aren't with his personal qualities. Clearly he's a good man with great character.
I'm just concerned with how he is going to handle the economy (he openly admits he doesn't know anything about economics), and what he plans on doing with Iraq (a massive money pit at this point). I vote on the economy back home....that's why John Howard always had my vote despite my personal grievances with him. Taking care of the economy is the no.1 way to keep a country strong, and supercedes everything else imo.
|
|
|
Post by watchman on Mar 6, 2008 15:16:43 GMT -5
if economy is the most important that would rule out the other two.
mike
|
|
|
Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 6, 2008 20:50:30 GMT -5
Uh huh. Because the reps have done SO well on the economy recently.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Carney on Mar 6, 2008 20:52:41 GMT -5
Obama would be good on fair housing prices. He seems to be able to find the good deals.
|
|
|
Post by Charlie on Mar 6, 2008 21:16:12 GMT -5
McCain has shown an ability to work with democrats. Any one recall the Keating Five?
|
|
|
Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 6, 2008 22:12:33 GMT -5
I used to be a big fan of McCain, and still kinda like him, although in recent years i think he's been pandering to the ultra right in exchange for their support in his inevitable run for the whitehouse; after he got short changed by his own party in 2000. I like to believe he's actually more moderate than he has come across recently. Like Clinton, further to the middle (albeit slightly on the right side of middle compared to Bill's slight left). If that turns out to be the case, and he can find some solid economic advisers (not the twits who have been whisper in Bush's ears), then although i'd rather have Obama (his platform supports many things i believe in), i could live with McCain.
I know it makes some republicans physically ill to utter a favorable word about Obama (or any dem for that matter), but he too could work with the other side and actually get some nuts done. He's a smart man with good ideas, and although you might not agree with everything he says....you sure as nuts could do a hell of a lot worse should he win the general.
I'm kinda at the mercy of the voting public though, which sucks really. Here i am, following the same laws, paying the same taxes, eligible to be called up in the same draft should there be one, and i actually give a crap about the political process.....and i can't vote. Meanwhile, more than 2/3 of the general public don't even bother and squander the right. Grrr.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Carney on Mar 7, 2008 8:01:07 GMT -5
McCain has shown an ability to work with democrats. Any one recall the Keating Five? See what happens when you hang out with a bad crowd? I tell my kids that all the time.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Carney on Mar 15, 2008 7:41:15 GMT -5
And now our old Buddy Barack is finally getting some scrutiny from the media about his relationships with seedy individuals and his racist, anti American pastor. This is going to get interesting. It's nice to be the wonder boy until the news gets slow and they start digging. Just ask Spitzer the holier than thou Dem who got "caught with his pants down"
Hillary must be licking her chops.
|
|
|
Post by Charlie on Mar 15, 2008 10:27:05 GMT -5
Spitzer was able to get that girls music career up and going. Now she can retire from prostitution. She did a lot of hard work to accomplish the American dream.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Carney on Mar 15, 2008 17:30:38 GMT -5
I don't know why she would want to retire. $4,500 bucks a night will definitely pay the bills. And there a a lot of other rich democrats out there if Spitzer is not available .
|
|
|
Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 15, 2008 19:14:35 GMT -5
Yeah, Spitzers an unfaithful scumbag because he's a dem, lol
|
|
|
Post by Charlie on Mar 15, 2008 20:19:40 GMT -5
I would think $4500 might be difficult to get now that the lack of protection knowledge has gone public. She might want to get as much as she can with her 15 minutes of fame.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Carney on Mar 15, 2008 20:36:31 GMT -5
Cmon Rob you know Republicans don't do stuff like that.
|
|