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Post by watchman on Oct 6, 2008 18:36:19 GMT -5
I only look at and post on the non-triathlon threads about 10% of the time .
It is interesting to see others thoughts on a wide range of topics
a thought to consider
There are over 3500 threads listed and only 98 that are non triathlon less than 5%
there are over 19,000 posts and only 941 that are non triathlon or 5%
seems like a small number
One more thought
there are really only two options; have them unlimted or stop them completely.
If you just limit them you will then who decides? and based on what? you will have "thought police"
I do not think we have gotten that far yet in the country .
As far as the posts ; even when there is controversy it is very entertaining and sometimes very funny to read.
mike
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Post by Kim Zepp on Oct 6, 2008 20:03:14 GMT -5
Everyone on this forum shares the love of triathlon; that's what we all have in common. In the last several months I've had the pleasure of training with several fellow CTC members. However, if all I did was "train" with these people, it would not have been as enjoyable. Getting to know the other members, beyond tri topics, keeps me coming back.
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Post by RoviChris on Oct 6, 2008 20:18:34 GMT -5
Interesting, if the Non-Tri posts poll is placed in the Non-Tri-Related area of the forum will anyone except those reading this area vote? Guessing if you're reading it, your more apt to vote for it?
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Post by Angie on Oct 7, 2008 7:34:53 GMT -5
I have to say that I think we should keep the non-triathlon related posts. This is a club and we should be able to chitty chat on non-triathlon related issues. We are all not all triathlon all of the time... we have interests outside triathlon and we might like to share our ideas about other topics. I think it helps us get to know one another better. ANGIE
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Post by robreddy on Oct 7, 2008 8:16:25 GMT -5
scrolling is easy
censorship SUCKS
r
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Post by Steve Wilson on Oct 7, 2008 8:18:06 GMT -5
Keep the Non-Tri posts without limitation.
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Post by MattCollister on Oct 7, 2008 8:36:20 GMT -5
Wasn't this debated about a year ago, resulting in the creation of the non-tri category?
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Post by MattCollister on Oct 7, 2008 8:52:26 GMT -5
Though, for the record, I disagree that changing the forum and directing or limiting the conversation constitutes censorship or "thought police." This isn't Public Square. It's a Web forum managed by the Cleveland Triathlon Club, as a benefit to its members. I think its fine to enable off-topic discussion on the grounds that its not counter to the Club's mission. If members are turned off by what's going on here, I think its a problem. Perception is everything.
If I show up at the picnic and it's clear to me that everyone is a complete jackass, and the club's managers don't seem to care, I think I'd find another club to join.
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Post by MattCollister on Oct 7, 2008 8:52:44 GMT -5
Fortunatelly, our picnics aren't like that.
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Post by robreddy on Oct 7, 2008 9:07:09 GMT -5
well matt
I respectfull disagree with ya
Seems to me this is kinda public square since anyone can use and post to this forum - member and non-member a like
this discussion began with the comment to STOP all non-tri related discussion - that is censorship to me
then we have moved to also considering limiting discussion - slippery slope - who decides what is allowable and what is not? when there has been too much allowable discussion and it needs to be limited?
Not saying we should allow porn to be thrown up on this Forum (I have other sites i visit for that ;} ) but unless it is WAY out of bounds - well this should be an open Forum - don't want to read some things - scroll past or skip over - that is a small price to pay and burden to bear so that people can communicate and express them selves amoungst friends
r
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Post by robreddy on Oct 7, 2008 9:15:55 GMT -5
matt
re-reading your post - possibly we are not as far off as I first thought - if some discussion TRULY and DEEPLY hurts the club's existance or image - yes remove it that specific post -
but I see no reason to deleate an entire content area (non-tri related) simply for convienence
r
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Post by Janet E on Oct 7, 2008 9:34:31 GMT -5
Well this has been a hot topic for the better part of a year and I have sat on the sidelines biting my tongue.
I have heard from some very vocal people how much they disagree with censorship. Yet just as strongly (and often these people are not the type that want to ruffle any feathers by stating their opinion) many CTC forum surfers have been turned off by many of the posts over the last year (more specifically the amount of politics regardless of which side of the fence they are on) and subsequently have started looking at the forum less. That is the last thing we want.
My stance would be to move to a middle ground which is very typical for other targeted forums (like triathlons, etc). My suggestion would be to adopt the following posting guidelines-
No Personal Attacks: gotta a problem with someone, don't post it No Foul Language: remember some members are minors No Lewd Material--well maybe bike porn is ok No Hijacking: keep the discussion about the topic, if you want to post about something else create a new topic No Politics or Religion No "Troll" posts. Posts whose sole purpose is to taunt or generate anger are not allowed.
It would not really be an issue of who would police it as it would be pretty cut and dry.
In my opinion, this is a triathlon forum. I don't have a problem with random non-tri related posts and do not see a problem with continuing them. I like seeing who is going to what concerts, movie recommendations and poison ivy remedies.
However, I do have an issue with turning off members with certain issues (such as politics) that have no place here. Yeah you can scroll through, but some don't care to see it in the first place. Most other forums have adopted these guidelines for this reason.
In my opinion, it is not really censorship but just taking care to keep the forum focused on why we all come here in the first place. We are so inundated with all of that everywhere else that the last thing some of us want is more of it. Just my .02.
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jbird
Olympic Member
"It's good to be alive'
Posts: 99
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Post by jbird on Oct 7, 2008 9:41:17 GMT -5
I guess I would have to agree with you Janet.
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Post by MattCollister on Oct 7, 2008 9:57:38 GMT -5
Maybe the question should be, "are you turned off by non-tri posts?"
Of course, our response would be skewed, because the people who have been turned off are probably no longer here.
I chuckled a little when you lumped in "politics and religion" with "foul language", "personal attacks," "lewd material," "taunting" and "generating anger." Maybe one month out from a presedential election is a bad time to discuss this.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Oct 7, 2008 11:47:34 GMT -5
The political threads are polite and civil. No one is acting malicious in those threads, and when you consider that the real conservatives (like Jack) are real life good friends with the real liberals (like Charlie and myself)...it kind of pokes a hole in the idea that its divisive.
Are we so delicate as a group that we can't have an exchange of ideas/opinions and *gasp* even disagree on some things from time to time? That's absurd! It's election season, and frankly, i think a rational discussion on politics is healthy. If you don't want to participate, don't. We're all adults here, and even the minors aren't being forced to read something they don't want to.
It boils down to this in my mind. This has come up again because there are some people (a significant minority according to the poll) that are too intolerant to allow others to talk about something that they themselves would rather not talk about. Instead, however, of just skipping over those posts (when they use the 50 recent post option), or just not opening the non-tri section (no secret whats in there)....they would rather everyone else talk exclusively about what they want to talk about. They want to control the conversation to fit their own personal comfort level....which is completely unreasonable and borderline selfish considering there is absolutely no reason why they need to read any content that they are not comfortable with. That's why we segregated the non-tri related from the tri related in the first place.
Should i only hang out with people from the club when it involves tri talk or training? Of course not! That's silly, they're more than training partners; they're my friends now.
Similarly, i think we can all agree that this is more than just a simple tri board. It's a place where people have built relationships and friendships that go beyond triathlon. As such, so does the topic of conversation. If you can't handle that, just keep scrolling, or view the board in the traditional manner where your delicate sensibilities won't be infringed upon by the mere existence of text on a screen.
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Post by Nathan on Oct 7, 2008 12:16:00 GMT -5
I would propose that we leave everything as is - as we have thoroughly beaten this topic into submission.
I must confess that I don't enjoy the political threads but believe that they will die off in November. While on this topic, I also am not a fan of excessively long race reports. Another item that really bothers me is excessive use of the forum to promote one's latest business venture. But I think it is safe to say that others look forward to all of these posts.
With that said, I will gladly continue to scroll through all that I perceive as nonsense to get to the stuff that I personally enjoy reading.
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Post by MattCollister on Oct 7, 2008 12:57:51 GMT -5
A-Rob
Easy, my friend. I don't think anyone's being intolerant. I think we all have a stake in the forum, and everyone has a right to share their ideas about what should and shouldn't be here.
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Post by watchman on Oct 7, 2008 16:25:57 GMT -5
Gosh I feel real bad about all of this.
All because I asked about raising children.
Did it offend someone? I did not intend to.
I agree that the best answer is if you have no interest scroll past it.
I have mentioned Drag Racing and gotten silence. It took care of itself.
What should be censored is when there are nasty attitudes.
I have not seen much of that.
I kinda like watching Jack take on all the liberals .
Though I disagree with them most of the time I have real respect for them and have gotten some insight from " the other side"
This has been about the only place I have found these talks to be civil and friendly.
Personally I hate politics and religion and I am not religious or political but Politics and religion are part of life and can be discussed and disagreed with if there is respect for others.
I am sure that after January 20 th this will fade as the new Tri season begins
We could talk about the polar plunge who is in?
mike
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Post by Aussie Rob on Oct 7, 2008 16:28:49 GMT -5
I of course mean no offense and agree completely that everyone has a right to express their views. I would never allow this to color my opinion of people as a whole, or affect my relationship with them; hopefully others feel the same way with me. I just find this issue frustrating to deal with based not only on principal, but because we had it 12 months ago, and i thought it was resolved with a fair compromise of segregating the non-tri content.
Anywho, i think i've made my position abundantly clear. Ultimately, i'll go with whatever the admins decide.
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Post by watchman on Oct 7, 2008 16:53:32 GMT -5
I feel the same way Rob. About it not affecting relationships. That is very rare nowadays. I disagree with you ( politically about 85 % of the time) but I think you are pretty cool and have some good insight and you have helped me with alot of Triathlon topics. you are a very helpful kind of person and I am impressed. Politically I figure you will leave " the Dark side" when you get older mike
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Post by gvale on Oct 7, 2008 17:33:31 GMT -5
I am sure many posts on the tri related forum have turned some people off as well.
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Post by Brandon on Oct 7, 2008 21:48:02 GMT -5
Hopefully nobody is offended by my posts, no matter the topic.
That said, I think all posts are tri-related and here is how:
Most of us (myslef included) are pressed for time with all of the training, work, kids, life, etc. Now, due to this forum I no longer have to read the newspaper, triathlete magazine, or the national enquirer. I just come here for all info I used to get elsewhere and as a result I have more time to train.
I will say that I seem to get more thoughtful responses to my non-tri posts (typicaly politics) than I do when I seek training advice...which is obviously tri related. So, either I offend everyone with my politics so they don't want to give me any training advice, or something...
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Post by gvale on Oct 7, 2008 21:51:41 GMT -5
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Post by Brandon on Oct 7, 2008 21:55:18 GMT -5
I'm just glad what Matt mentioned was, indeed, not the case.
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Post by erinj on Oct 8, 2008 13:26:30 GMT -5
uh, i think it's virtually impossible not to form an opinion about someone you haven't met when all you have to base your opinion of them is how they post in a political thread...so yeah, that could color the way you look at strangers...(and i STILL don't know half the peeps here, being a part of the southern contingent and all)
that said - that is why i never open them...i want to love all!
i don't really care...i can see the reason for stopping them...any potential new member happens upon the forum at the wrong time and BAM...drama...it could scare them off...i think for those that like to discuss politics among friends and can keep it civil could just as easily do it while out on a run or ride...
but i agree how do you limit some things and not others...big gray area...
so i guess i'm a "no opinion" on this poll kind of gal...i see the reason for it, but don't feel strongly about it one way or another...
but if i really did want to talk about a another topic in depth i would probably find a forum for that?
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Post by Charlie on Oct 8, 2008 16:24:22 GMT -5
I am not a fan of the political discussions. However I am rare to conceal my thoughts on a discussion. I am more then happy to move my gig announcements to the "For Sale" section if others feel that this is a problem. I did request permission to post these when I first used this board for that purpose. Since that time I have continued at the request of many other members (Nathan, I know you are not referring to my gigs as you had been one to reinforce my posts). I do think the Non tri board has a place here. As long as the club as an organization takes no stand on non tri issues. Most of the talk seems to heat when nothing tri related is going on. Prior to IMKY Jack and I were all Ironman, after the race Jacks attempts at re educating me began.
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Post by Nathan on Oct 8, 2008 17:07:22 GMT -5
Charlie,
I am not referring to you at all. When I was writing up things that I don't appreciate on the forum, a few specific examples came to mind. Your gigs were not one of them. For those that have not been to one of Charlie's performances, take time to step off the trainer this winter, sit down with a few friends, have a couple of beers and listen. Charlie's music calms the noise that surrounds us. At least it did for me when I lived in Cleveland.
Cheers!
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Post by Charlie on Oct 8, 2008 17:13:54 GMT -5
Thanks again Nathan. You are to kind.
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Post by MarkD on Oct 8, 2008 20:42:14 GMT -5
1. This was already solved when we decided to go with the non-tri related section. It was the perfect solution. Don't change a thing. I'm surprised its been raised again...
2. Censorship sucks. Don't restrict anything except #3 below.
3. I agree with Janet that we can't be overly lewd and we can't be hateful.
4. I also agree with Nathan - this will mostly die off in November.
5. I thought Aussie summed it up perfectly. Nice work young man.
6. Since this is a democracy, I'd call this vote a "landslide victory" for free speech !
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Paul
Olympic Member
Posts: 76
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Post by Paul on Oct 8, 2008 20:43:04 GMT -5
I like the non tri posts, if there is a topic that I am not interested in reading I just go right on by. I don't like talking about politics so I just don't look at those posts. If a new member were to look at on of those threads and was so offended that they did not want to stay a member, I think that they should have known what they were getting into, it is politics after all. If it weren't for this section I would not have have found out about that sweet Maiden show earlier this summer.
Up The Irons!
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