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Post by MarkD on Oct 8, 2008 20:43:27 GMT -5
ps: for those who find my picture to the left offensive, be glad I cropped it at the waist  Paul - YES INDEED - UP THE IRONS !!!!!!!! |
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Post by Brian Luther on Oct 9, 2008 12:52:29 GMT -5
Amy,
If I may be so curious, why do you ask this question about the non tri posts? Why the survey?
In general, its awesome to have this web site and its support by the club in doing so..... If cost is a factor in keeping this web site up, I would be the first one to pay more in my dues to cover costs! ;D
Brian
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Post by Jack Carney on Oct 13, 2008 13:17:42 GMT -5
The political threads are polite and civil. No one is acting malicious in those threads, and when you consider that the real conservatives (like Jack) are real life good friends with the real liberals (like Charlie and myself)...it kind of pokes a hole in the idea that its divisive. Are we so delicate as a group that we can't have an exchange of ideas/opinions and *gasp* even disagree on some things from time to time? That's absurd! It's election season, and frankly, i think a rational discussion on politics is healthy. If you don't want to participate, don't. We're all adults here, and even the minors aren't being forced to read something they don't want to. It boils down to this in my mind. This has come up again because there are some people (a significant minority according to the poll) that are too intolerant to allow others to talk about something that they themselves would rather not talk about. Instead, however, of just skipping over those posts (when they use the 50 recent post option), or just not opening the non-tri section (no secret whats in there)....they would rather everyone else talk exclusively about what they want to talk about. They want to control the conversation to fit their own personal comfort level....which is completely unreasonable and borderline selfish considering there is absolutely no reason why they need to read any content that they are not comfortable with. That's why we segregated the non-tri related from the tri related in the first place. Should i only hang out with people from the club when it involves tri talk or training? Of course not! That's silly, they're more than training partners; they're my friends now. Similarly, i think we can all agree that this is more than just a simple tri board. It's a place where people have built relationships and friendships that go beyond triathlon. As such, so does the topic of conversation. If you can't handle that, just keep scrolling, or view the board in the traditional manner where your delicate sensibilities won't be infringed upon by the mere existence of text on a screen. Holy Cow did I just agree with Aussie!!  ;D C'mon if someone leaves the forum because they don't like to see political discourse and some really fun and sometimes educational posts, or are not adult enough to just ignore it, I think they really need to seriously chill out they are way too serious. Plus if we got rid of it who would educate the lost souls like Charlie and Rob if I were not here to do so? |
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Post by Charlie on Oct 13, 2008 13:49:11 GMT -5
We would get our education from Youtube of course.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Oct 13, 2008 14:22:27 GMT -5
I know i'd personally get mine from sound bites and Rush |
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Post by elizabeth on Oct 13, 2008 14:46:27 GMT -5
For what it is worth I think that it is perfectly acceptable to say no religion, no sex (like Janet said only porn of the bike variety allowed), no politics on the tri forum. As entertaining as some of those posts have been I really think this isn't the place for them. For whatever reason religion and politics are two topics that bring out very powerful opinions and to be frank some of these posts are a huge turn off.
Frankly there a few posters here who I know when I meet them for the first time my opinion of them will be biased by what they said on here. And honestly my opinion isn't that high. I for one would not want the first impression someone has of me to be a political rant on the local tri forum. There are plenty of sites on the web where you can discuss politics and religion (and we all know there are plenty sites for those looking for more than bike porn). And most other sites ban religion and politics exactly for the reason that it is a turn off for many.
Our admin is not being unreasonable at all when they state that they want to get rid of these discussions on their tri forum. Everyone I know uses the 50 most recent posts option to view this site, it is the best way to see what is new, and when 45 of 50 of those posts are bashing political views it is a bit annoying for someone who came here to see who has just raced, who needs volunteers, etc. This is a turn off and I am guessing it has resulted in a loss of site traffic.
You can talk politics with the tri folks you are chummy with via email, on facebook, or out on the roads. I think the tri forum should be for tri topics. I think it is very obvious which topics should be limited and which are acceptable. It is standard forum policy to block religion,sex, and politics, most online forums ban you the first time you bring one or the other up. There's no fuzzy line. Those three topics should be out and the non tri related section of the site can be for everything else non tri related.
I've said my peace, mostly because I couldn't get the poll to work, so you get a nice little afternoon rant from me instead of a restrict the topics vote.
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Post by gvale on Oct 13, 2008 15:15:34 GMT -5
Well spoken Elizabeth.
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Post by Jack Carney on Oct 13, 2008 15:38:13 GMT -5
I didn't think the admin was promoting getting rid of it and the results of the poll were pretty clear. I see this whole site as a community of people who do triathlon and is one of the tightest knit groups I have seen. I doubt highly that anyone has come here to learn about triathlon and left because someone posted about Obama. Charlie and Rob are as far away from me politically as possible but we are all good friends and if someone can't separate the two I don't understand it. It will open up a pandoras box to do away with non triathlon talk as now people wondering if they can post something they think is questionable probably won't.
I also don't understand those who are saying how much they don't like it but who obviously read it. Why do you? When the title of the thread is Obama, Mcain, Palin I doubt anyone thinks there is triathlon advice there. Unless you are looking for a pearl of wisdom from one of our political sages, or just want to hear what Aussie heard Keith Olberman say last night ;D don't click there!
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Post by Nathan on Oct 13, 2008 15:55:55 GMT -5
Jack,
You poor thing. The folks that are complaining about having to read your "political" threads are the ones that seem to only use the "50 Most Recent Comments" option on the first page of the forum. It appears that some are hesitant to scroll directly to the sections that they find most interesting - perhaps in fear of missing out on anything important - they instinctually click on the 50 Comments tab to ensure that they miss nothing.
I'll say it again - I don't like the political thread and I have yet to click on it. As such, I have no idea what Jack, Charlie, Aussie Rob and the rest are talking about. Why? Because I could care less. But because that topic has bled into other posts, I now know that Jack is a Republican and Charlie and Aussie Rob are Democrats.
I do believe, however, that each of them have every right to post their comments. And accordingly to the poll, an overwhelming majority believe just as I do.
BUT ...
If we are going to start limiting topics, I want to throw in my personal opinion that we ban two additional annoying topics (in addition to religion and politics and porn):
1) lengthy race reports (please wrap it up in no more than two short paragraphs - one paragraph to discuss the race / venue and a second smaller paragraph to talk about what you did). Some of us really want info on the venue but do not enjoy wading through the short novel that is your personal adventure. Feel free to move these over to your personal blog site; and
2) using the forum to promote your latest business venture (over and over and over again - we do not need more than one post to remind us of what you are doing and that you want ctc members to support you).
I'll say it again, in November all this political chatter will roll off the forum. But if we are going to pick on these topics, we might as well add to the list.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Oct 13, 2008 16:13:18 GMT -5
With respect Elizabeth, you're advocating banning topics because you don't want to read it, yet no one is making you. You don't want to talk politics, so no one is allowed to? Just scroll on past. Why is that so difficult? I do it on here all the time with various subjects im not interested in.
As far as people forming opinions about me because of my politics, that's their prerogative i suppose.
The irony is that this censorship topic has a far more negative vibe than the political threads :b
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Post by elizabeth on Oct 13, 2008 16:33:01 GMT -5
Let me clarify in case I wasn't clear. I do not mind reading these political discussions, like I said, often they are entertaining. And hopefully everyone realized I was not trying to "attack" any of you who feel that this is the place for this discussion.
But I personally do not think this forum is the place for these discussions. If you look at any other tri board forum or any other sort of clubs forums you will see that religion and politics are off limits.
Apparently though some feel it is okay for everyone to express their political views here, but it isn't okay for me to express my view on putting those views here. I am totally willing to disagree peacefully about it, but I thought the purpose of this poll and post was to ask for our opinions. Now you have mine.
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Post by chuckm on Oct 13, 2008 16:55:12 GMT -5
Any way to have the 50 most recent posts button NOT bring up the "General Board, non-triathlon related posts"? Seems like that would solve things.
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Post by MattCollister on Oct 13, 2008 16:58:50 GMT -5
Geez, Nathan. While were at it, why don't we require everyone to use AP style and Fleisch-Kincaid readability metrics?
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Post by MarkD on Oct 13, 2008 17:35:27 GMT -5
I'll second Chuck's recommendation...
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Post by Charlie on Oct 13, 2008 17:41:49 GMT -5
I think E and Amy's concern is weather or not these discussions serve our goals as a triathlon club or if they hurt it.
The closer we get to this election, the more volatile these discussions will become. It is possible that things could be said that could deeply hurt the reputation of the whole club. I personally have gained to much in my own life from the club to want to provoke in some way its downfall.
I do admit, I struggle to keep from responding to what i believe to be wrong. I don't see a problem with starting a forum off site for these topics. As long as Matt adds it to his growing list of links, it will be easy to find.
We could call it, tri-to-be-openminded.com
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Post by Aussie Rob on Oct 13, 2008 18:49:15 GMT -5
Just think of this drawer of the forum as our version of the Lavender Room. |
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Post by chuckm on Oct 13, 2008 21:09:39 GMT -5
I considered suggesting the Lavender room as an alternative. You'll get a lot more worldwide participation, but it won't be nearly as cival.
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Post by gvale on Oct 13, 2008 21:19:18 GMT -5
Why am I the only one who has voted against?
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Post by Nathan on Oct 14, 2008 9:24:03 GMT -5
For the record, I would never advocate banning anything from the forum. My above post was meant more to show my personal opinion of the silliness of this whole discussion. A discussion that was put to rest long ago and should have remained there. I could care less what is / is not posted on this forum as I believe we are all smart enough to avoid posting what others would find trully offensive. While some of us might find certain topics annoying at times, there is a big divide as to what is considered annoying and offensive. I apologize if I offended anyone with my half-hearted attempt to demonstrate that I believe we have taken this discussion entirely too far.
With that said, I think Andrew's latest comment to leave well enough alone is great. If that is not an acceptable solution, Chuck's comment about taking the non-tri posts out of the "50 Most Recent" is awesome!
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Post by elizabeth on Oct 14, 2008 10:41:04 GMT -5
George, I couldn't get the poll to work so I haven't voted.
It was not my intention to "rabble rouse" here. I just felt that I should state my opinion as I do believe that a few of the non tri posts have become offensive. Maybe I am super sensitive, but I think there is a reason all other non political forums ban politics.
I believe I probably feel like Charlie in that it is a real struggle to not respond to something I feel is wrong, but I also know that many things said on a forum get taken out of context and I have kept my mouth shut on a few topics that I found offensive for fear of calling out someone who I have never met and who I only "know" from their posts on this forum, I am not here to dissuade people from training or becoming friends with me, I am here to create relationships with others who enjoy the same recreational activities I do. That's why I feel these discussions are best kept amongst individuals who do know each other outside of this forum in some alternative location.
Hopefully that clarifies my opinion. Obviously not many agree with me, or if they do they are too polite to speak up.
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Post by watchman on Oct 14, 2008 12:14:22 GMT -5
George, I couldn't get the poll to work so I haven't voted. It was not my intention to "rabble rouse" here. I just felt that I should state my opinion as I do believe that a few of the non tri posts have become offensive. Maybe I am super sensitive, but I think there is a reason all other non political forums ban politics. I believe I probably feel like Charlie in that it is a real struggle to not respond to something I feel is wrong, but I also know that many things said on a forum get taken out of context and I have kept my mouth shut on a few topics that I found offensive for fear of calling out someone who I have never met and who I only "know" from their posts on this forum, I am not here to dissuade people from training or becoming friends with me, I am here to create relationships with others who enjoy the same recreational activities I do. That's why I feel these discussions are best kept amongst individuals who do know each other outside of this forum in some alternative location. Hopefully that clarifies my opinion. Obviously not many agree with me, or if they do they are too polite to speak up. Elizabeth all that you have said is good and makes sense. The challenge with all ofthis is to be able to post and yet have a good attitude. There are many I disagree with but still like the people. What needs to be banned is not the topics but the bad attitudes. most here have had good attitudes. Actually I have seen better attitudes here than what I see in the general public. I can see this from both sides. It helps to get to know people. But it is not worth making enemies over. I am just thankful for all the triathlon help. I hope none of my comments have made anyone upset to where they will not share Triathlon help. This site is pure gold as far as triathlon help goes. The other stuff is just dross. mike mike |
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Post by Aussie Rob on Oct 14, 2008 13:17:07 GMT -5
I guess im just surprised that someone would decide whether or not they like someone based on their politics. There is nothing inherently offensive about a civil political discussion.
It's good that Charlie and Elizabeth restrain themselves (I do too like you wouldn't believe, or maybe you would if you knew me in real life); that's the key, and thats what makes the discussions here about politics pleasantly unique compared to places like the Lavander Room on ST. That's why i enjoy them so much here; it's contentious, but friendly....a perfect (and rare) balance.
If anything, the fact that we can find that balance elevates the members of the club, rather than diminishing them.
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Post by timritt on Oct 14, 2008 13:28:26 GMT -5
I only became interested in this discussion when you mentioned porn.
tr
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Post by watchman on Oct 14, 2008 13:29:03 GMT -5
I guess im just surprised that someone would decide whether or not they like someone based on their politics. There is nothing inherently offensive about a civil political discussion. It's good that Charlie and Elizabeth restrain themselves (I do too like you wouldn't believe, or maybe you would if you knew me in real life); that's the key, and thats what makes the discussions here about politics pleasantly unique compared to places like the Lavander Room on ST. That's why i enjoy them so much here; it's contentious, but friendly....a perfect (and rare) balance. If anything, the fact that we can find that balance elevates the members of the club, rather than diminishing them. well said such wisdom from down under I heard a guy from new Zealand speak recently and he referred to Australia as a small island off the coast of new Zealand. Is there a tension or rivalry there? Like Cleveland and pittsburgh? |
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Post by Aussie Rob on Oct 14, 2008 16:26:04 GMT -5
More like USA/Canada
They're like Australias little bro....we give em tons of crap, but would be the first in line to defend em.
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Post by gvale on Oct 14, 2008 16:32:40 GMT -5
I hear those Boomerangs can realy do some damage.  |
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Post by Charlie on Oct 14, 2008 20:17:49 GMT -5
I threw one once. Hurt like hell when it came and struck me. I bet if all of our weapons came with round trip tickets, we would be less likely to use them.
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Post by Brian Luther on Oct 18, 2008 10:08:42 GMT -5
Insight to any topic is enlightening.  If it be, Religion, Politics, or whatever else is out there to have a greater understanding of what others think............ Is it a turnoff to some  , is it a "turn on" ;D for others?....... Must we have a vail of secrecy when it comes to topics that some people find off limits?........... Please....... Someone, somewhere, "will always", be offended no matter what the topic. Maybe its because we deny the possibility that there may be things in life that we do not believe in, or cannot grasp its true origins of. Whatever the reason, we as individuals have the "ability" to agree or disagree, and or, decide to not to make a choice........ We are all human. No one is perfect. Brian |
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brenda
Sprint Member
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Post by brenda on Oct 19, 2008 21:22:40 GMT -5
i really haven't visited this non tri related part of the board. while i have been on sites that have gotten out of hand with personal attacks and inappropriate posts (foul language ect..) i havent seen any think that was offensive here.
i like to read the friendly barter, and see what people think about topics.
i am fairly new to the group, but have met member through various activities. for example "watchman" has 14 kids. i have been curious how he manages and works everything in. i didnt really have anything to say about raising kids, but enjoyed reading somethings that were written. with the election comming up,although i have decided my vote, i liked to read what other people think.
like i said, i havent visited this part of the board much, but what i have read here was okay. i think it should stay.
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;D
, is it a "turn on" ;D for others?.......