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Post by MattCollister on Oct 5, 2008 17:06:19 GMT -5
Not to get all H.L. Mencken on ya, but I'm not so sure the American people are doing a great job with how they choose to spend their money either.
I'll start with funding both sides of the 'war on terror.'
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Post by Jack Carney on Oct 5, 2008 20:18:11 GMT -5
The government has contributed to the problem not helped to avoid it. (both sides of the aisle should share the blame although the Dems seem to have forgotten theirs as evidenced by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who should both be hiding in their rat holes instead of shouting about the Republicans) There was a big push to increase home ownership during the good economic periods which is a good thing but then of course it became a class warfare thing where groups that were not able to afford it were somehow being "discriminated" against so requirements were lessened and people who really couldn't afford home ownership became homeowners. Others who saw a chance to make big profits flipping homes also got involved. Now it is the banks who are being blamed for people who purchased homes they had no business purchasing. Some people may have been deceived but are we to assume or believe that the American people are all that stupid? Let's face it a lot of these people would have just sold these homes a year later for huge profits. They would have bragged about their business acumen but since it failed it somehow must be someone elses fault. The new American Way. Personal responsibility? Nowhere to be found.
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Post by kenb321 on Oct 6, 2008 6:47:33 GMT -5
Great News! For the next 3 weeks we can look forward to ads featuring Jerimiah Wright, Bill Ayers, and Charles Keating. At a time when things should be serious, we get "guilt by association" ads. This makes me so sad. I like policy talk and strategy talk. Or is it tactics? I can never tell.
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Post by watchman on Oct 11, 2008 7:57:43 GMT -5
Here is the copy of an e-mail from a Drag Racing friend. Anyone in Drag Racing will know him Don Garlits. He is the one who met Obama that I mentioned .
read below. mike
Some interesting reading...the sad thing about it, you can see it evolving: HOW LONG DO WE HAVE? I have always heard about this "democracy countdown". It is interesting to see it in print. God help us, not that we deserve it. How Long Do We Have? About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier: 'A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.' 'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.' 'From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.' 'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years' 'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence: 1. from bondage to spiritual faith; 2. from spiritual faith to great courage; 3. from courage to liberty; 4. from liberty to abundance; 5. from abundance to complacency; 6. from complacency to apathy; 7. from apathy to dependence; 8. from dependence back into bondage' Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline UniversitySchool of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election: Number of States won by: Democrats: 19 Republicans: 29 Square miles of land won by: Democrats: 580,000 Republicans: 2,427,000 Population of counties won by: Democrats: 127 million Republicans: 143 million Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Democrats: 13.2 Republicans: 2.1 Professor Olson adds: 'In aggregate, the map of the territory Republican won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare...' Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the 'complacency and apathy' phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the 'governmental dependency' phase. If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million "criminal invaders" called illegal's AND they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years. WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE... DON GARLITS 10/10/2008
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Post by Aussie Rob on Oct 11, 2008 9:24:31 GMT -5
I'd love to see the source data, assuming it actually exists.
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Post by Jack Carney on Oct 11, 2008 10:51:30 GMT -5
Great News! For the next 3 weeks we can look forward to ads featuring Jerimiah Wright, Bill Ayers, and Charles Keating. At a time when things should be serious, we get "guilt by association" ads. This makes me so sad. I like policy talk and strategy talk. Or is it tactics? I can never tell. Why is that a problem? We are after all judged by the company we keep. The past of the candidates should be fair game along with their records and associations.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Oct 11, 2008 12:19:46 GMT -5
That's true, but much of this stuff these days is either outright fabricated or greatly exaggerated. Sadly though, many people don't bother to really look at it themselves and just regurgitate what they hear. It becomes a problem in my mind when this kind of talk complete eclipses talk about the issues, which i think is more important.
I think its fair to say that both guys have the countrys best interests at heart; they just disagree on how to go about looking after it.
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Post by watchman on Oct 11, 2008 12:42:37 GMT -5
I'd love to see the source data, assuming it actually exists. Rob good question and you are right there is so much misinformation The source I got it from was Don Garlits. Since you are from another country you might not know but he is the greatest Drag Racer in history. He would be to drag Racing what Babe Ruth is to baseball. You do know who Babe Ruth is right? I just checked snopes on this www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.aspThe Tyler quote is possible but not for certain but it sure makes sense. Whoever observed this pattern was brilliant. The Olsen quote was not from him. It is unknown who made it. The land area mentioned is correct but the murder rates are not. Instead of 13 to 2 it should be 6 to 4. One thing is for sure we are headed for trouble. I am reading the "Rise and fall of the Third Reich" There are so many thimgs similar. Hitler made a statement about his Government. he said that "there power was in printing money. When they no longer could do it , they would be seen as the scoundrels they are. Then when the people are tired of the corruption of the leaders and politics they will want a dictator" If the next President ( whoever it is) says "we need to consolidate all the power in the Presidency for a short time to get through this hard time" ( Hitler did this and the congress agreed to it supposedly for 4 years) Then look out we are heading for trouble. One thing is for sure. When the people see the government as the answer as in looking for handouts, then we are near the end for our Government. Mike
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Post by Aussie Rob on Oct 11, 2008 12:54:03 GMT -5
Roosevelt did that more than anyone in history, and he is celebrated as one of the greatest Presidents ever. Much of the rest of the first world does the things we're talking about doing, and they haven't collapsed.
I think Americans have an inherent mistrust of government, and is invokes deep dark fear in many people here from what ive seen. Its been there from the country's inception, and deepened through the Vietnam era and watergate scandal. I don't view it nearly the same way...i think capitalism with a dash of socialism (i realise thats a bad word in this country) is the best way to go.
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Post by MattCollister on Oct 11, 2008 13:14:50 GMT -5
Great News! For the next 3 weeks we can look forward to ads featuring Jerimiah Wright, Bill Ayers, and Charles Keating. At a time when things should be serious, we get "guilt by association" ads. This makes me so sad. I like policy talk and strategy talk. Or is it tactics? I can never tell. Why is that a problem? We are after all judged by the company we keep. The past of the candidates should be fair game along with their records and associations. Is John McCain a bigot because he kept company with Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond?
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Post by watchman on Oct 11, 2008 13:16:24 GMT -5
Roosevelt did that more than anyone in history, and he is celebrated as one of the greatest Presidents ever. Much of the rest of the first world does the things we're talking about doing, and they haven't collapsed. I think Americans have an inherent mistrust of government, and is invokes deep dark fear in many people here from what ive seen. Its been there from the country's inception, and deepened through the Vietnam era and watergate scandal. I don't view it nearly the same way...i think capitalism with a dash of socialism (i realise thats a bad word in this country) is the best way to go. There are many who do not celebrate Roosevelt and think he made everything worse and world War 2 helpeed restore everything. Socialism has a good promise " everyone share what they have with those who have less" . That is what Jesus taught, motivated by love. The problem is when it is forced. that i why it has never worked. The Soviet Union removed the only true motivations within mankind. When it stopped capitalism it removed greed. As bad as greed is it motivates people to work to get ahead. If they cannot get ahead by work and someone is given the same without working it kills that motivation. The other is they went secular and tried to kill any religion. With that they removed the Love of God and the motive of Love. Without it there is no reason to share with anyone. What did they end up with? It all fell apart. I like what you said. Capitalism with a dash of socialism. That is what our country had when it was founded. The socialism came from the Churches and it was motivated by Love. mike
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Post by Charlie on Oct 11, 2008 21:42:42 GMT -5
Why is that a problem? We are after all judged by the company we keep. The past of the candidates should be fair game along with their records and associations. Is John McCain a bigot because he kept company with Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond? Don't forget Sen Byrd who was a KKK member. John McCain also voted against the creation of MLK day and his state of AZ refused to observe the holiday through the 90's.
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Post by Jack Carney on Oct 11, 2008 23:15:28 GMT -5
I would prefer a president who kept company with bigots than one who kept company with terrorists who blew up buildings.
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Post by Deirdre on Oct 12, 2008 6:31:58 GMT -5
I have received many Atwater-Rove model emails that try to strike fear into the hearts and heads of Americans so they vote Republican . . . (usually sent from my dear mother). This one did not come from mom . . . * If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you’re ‘exotic, different.’ * Grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers,a quintessential American story. * If your name is Barack you’re a radical, unpatriotic Muslim. * Name your kids Willow, Trig, Bristol and Track, you’re a maverick. * Graduate from Columbia and Harvard law School and you are unstable. * Attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you’re well grounded. * If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate’s Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senator representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran’s Affairs committees, you don’t have any real leadership experience. * If your total resume is: local weather lady, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you’re qualified to become the country’s second highest ranking executive. * If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you’re not a real Christian. * If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left this disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you’re a Christian. (McCain) * If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society. * If , while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state’s school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant , you’re very responsible. * If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family’s values don’t represent America’s. * If your husband is nicknamed ‘First Dude’ with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn’t register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable. P.S. for Jack - if you really are appalled by philandering "Slick Willie", re-read a few bullets above . . . . really, a BJ in the Oval Office is impeachable, but lying in order to take our country to war in Iraq - oops?
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Post by Aussie Rob on Oct 12, 2008 6:56:56 GMT -5
I would prefer a president who kept company with bigots than one who kept company with terrorists who blew up buildings. Strongsville, OH www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9ESee anyone you know Jack?
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Post by Jack Carney on Oct 12, 2008 8:57:51 GMT -5
Rob that video takes away any shred of credibility you had with me as an intelligent debater of the topic. I guarantee you any rabble rouser with a camera could go to a Barack rally and find a handful of idiots espousing racism or radical ideas and post them to the internet for other clueless people to watch and believe that represents most of his supporters. I didn't think you would be one of the gullible ones.
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Post by MattCollister on Oct 12, 2008 9:52:50 GMT -5
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jbird
Olympic Member
"It's good to be alive'
Posts: 99
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Post by jbird on Oct 12, 2008 12:16:24 GMT -5
I loved that video, almost as much as this topic. Now maybe I can get a cat to teach my 6yr/old to flush. LOL!!!
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Post by Aussie Rob on Oct 12, 2008 12:48:23 GMT -5
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Post by MarkD on Oct 12, 2008 14:30:56 GMT -5
You guys (and gals) crack me up. Thanks for the entertainment...
ps: I'm still stuck on 12 wings and 2 beers...
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Post by watchman on Oct 12, 2008 17:20:28 GMT -5
You guys (and gals) crack me up. Thanks for the entertainment... ps: I'm still stuck on 12 wings and 2 beers... I am with you this is entertaining I am in for wings but it will have to be root beer for me mike
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Post by Charlie on Oct 12, 2008 20:48:32 GMT -5
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Post by watchman on Oct 12, 2008 21:24:37 GMT -5
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Post by Jack Carney on Oct 12, 2008 22:53:10 GMT -5
I agree Charlie what is the point? He is a senator that the morons of West Virginia keep electing. What is laughable is that all of you so outraged that McCain didnt vote for MLK day seem to give this racist senator a pass.
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