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Post by Brian Luther on Aug 29, 2008 11:34:42 GMT -5
I know it has been a while since the politcal pot has stirred!
Do we have a good choice for our Presidency? And our Vice Presidency?
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Post by Aussie Rob on Aug 29, 2008 11:52:24 GMT -5
With the Palin pick, McCain has taken the issue of Obama's experience off the table. The one thing i think could have damaged Obama. If they keep beating that drum, they do so as hypocrites.
McCain is basically running on an agenda of 'change' now too. Only i think Obama has that strategy locked up at this point.
Interesting choice though. I look forward to the VP debate.
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Post by Brian Luther on Aug 29, 2008 11:55:09 GMT -5
I hear Palin knows how to fish! Oh and she is young too!
Brian
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Post by Angie on Aug 29, 2008 13:49:35 GMT -5
Wow... what a weird election year this is going to be. While a totally agree with the Obama pick, I am finding it hard to understand McCain's pick... is he only going for the female vote. Why pick an outsider who no one knows? The likelihood of him surviving for 8 years is low and then she will be president. I am all for women taking positions of power but this seems a bit much. On the other hand... while everyone is yelling about inexperience... the country voted in GW who had NO experience in foreign policy or federal govt when he was elected. As far as I am concerned, it is not a big issue as long as the people in power surround themselves with those who are experienced.
However, the choice of Palin is still perplexing to me.....
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Post by MattCollister on Aug 29, 2008 14:05:19 GMT -5
Michael Palin might have been a better choice.
At least he does actually have diplomatic experience.
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Post by sarajean on Aug 29, 2008 14:22:17 GMT -5
With the Palin pick, McCain has taken the issue of Obama's experience off the table. The one thing i think could have damaged Obama. If they keep beating that drum, they do so as hypocrites. Governor Palin has experience governing a state. From what I heard on WTAM, she managed to increase services in her state without raising taxes. I'd be interested to hear more about this.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Aug 29, 2008 14:46:01 GMT -5
Wanna know who else was a governor? GW, and we saw how well that worked out. It's not like she has a towering list of accomplishments, she has 18 months in the least populous state in the union. Besides, shes the VP, she's not going to be running anything....she'll do what most VPs do....go on foreign and diplomatic missions representing the USA; only she doesn't have any of that kind of experience like Biden does.
It's a dumb pick.
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Chris
Olympic Member
Posts: 121
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Post by Chris on Aug 29, 2008 17:55:25 GMT -5
It doesnt completely wipe off the in-experience issue. Like you said rob, the VP's dont make the decisions, so the it comes back the experience the prez position. If you wana take that position of experience then think about this, do you want your prez making decisions or the VP. Plus she is an NRA member, fishes, and wants to drill for oil. 3 plusses at least i think so. Mccain is trying to steal the clinton votes that dislike obama for beating clinton so they dont vote democrat. Its all craziness.
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Post by MattCollister on Aug 29, 2008 18:36:35 GMT -5
It doesnt completely wipe off the in-experience issue. Like you said rob, the VP's dont make the decisions, so the it comes back the experience the prez position. If you wana take that position of experience then think about this, do you want your prez making decisions or the VP. That's not really the point. It's not about whether or not the VP makes decisions (although, for the last 8 years, the VP has been making A LOT of decisions). In a presidential campaign, the VP pick is a statement by the candidate. Maybe a test of judgement. "I believe this person is qualified to lead (should I die or otherwise become unfit for office)." It's all in the 25th Amendment. Anyway, whether or not experience is important to you personally is another question. Until today, I thought it was somewhat overrated - in the last three decades we've only elected one president who had any foreign affairs or significant federal government experience. In history, we've had inexperienced men become strong presidents (Lincoln, Truman); and experienced men become weak presidents (LBJ). Now, I am not so sure. On the other hand, maybe an elk-hunting-fish-catching-former-beauty-queen-soccer-mom-Iditarod-hosting-Wikipedia-editing-half-term-governor-of-a-frozen-tundra is just what this country needs to get its mojo back.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Aug 29, 2008 18:59:57 GMT -5
Mccain is trying to steal the clinton votes that dislike obama for beating clinton so they dont vote democrat. Its all craziness. This is what makes the move such a dumb one. Women like Clinton because she cares about issues that are important to them. Abortion, healthcare, education, equal pay for equal work, etc etc. These are the things that Clinton championed. Palin is quite literally everything Clinton is not. She's a hard line neo-conservative republican. Does McCain really think so little of women to think that they followed her merely because she has a girl thingy? And any old girl thingy as VP will be enough to sway them? lol....ya right. edit - v-a-g-i-n-a is censored? Are you serious? Like it's a naughty word or something? Laughable!
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Chris
Olympic Member
Posts: 121
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Post by Chris on Aug 30, 2008 6:01:25 GMT -5
It all comes down to november and the people pick who they think is best and who will side with liberals or conservatives. And this is why we vote, choices. on that note, I am going to nominate my self for president and have aussie rob as my running mate. I think you and I can win it, lets go!! lol
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Post by MarkD on Aug 30, 2008 7:57:18 GMT -5
I'll cast my vote for Jesse-the-body-Ventura with Arnold-the-Governator as the VP. Until that ticket is set, I'm abstaining (sp?).
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Post by Charlie on Aug 30, 2008 17:13:03 GMT -5
You all know that jack and I are sharing a hotel in Lousville. I was really hoping we could keep this debate at bay until after Ironman....or at least until he discovers the Obama sticker on his top tube.
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Post by marx brothers on Aug 31, 2008 18:17:04 GMT -5
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Post by Aussie Rob on Aug 31, 2008 19:43:48 GMT -5
lol nice ed
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Post by Brian Luther on Sept 1, 2008 12:47:20 GMT -5
Why don't we vote in B. Obama and Biden and see how well Congress will work on American and try to address what is wrong with our country............
I would be very pleased if our soon to be newly elected President would close the doors of immigration for a few years, and make the attempt to rid the deficit to a more workable number........... and motivate the American public to a new high!
Since "Bush Jr. and Cheney" has made the deficit and American leadership a disgrace to the American public....... "Bush and Cheney" did offer/promise American public that they would tread lightly and bring new leadership to our Country........ What happened, Cheney was trigger happy and George Jr. wanted Democracy around the World........
Obama and Biden, "can not to do any worse than those two individuals "trying to run our country" at present moment... They may even do a whole lot better........ I do hope and pray, yet with the World Population Explosion and natural resources dwindling quickly, we only have a very "little window of opportunity" to attempt a recovery........ I want America to be a strong and unified Country, not the divided bull s h * #/crap that we have been living in, these past "eight years".......
Brian
p.s. Our Country was founded by a strong desire for Freedom and Faith in God........ Can we gather our people and get back to our Founding Fathers Dreams! ? I believe we can and need to start now!
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Post by ssantoli on Sept 2, 2008 11:09:44 GMT -5
My aunt forwarded me the following email message today regarding Palin:
The message below came from a friend who received it from her friend. I thought you'd find it interesting.
Karren
Dear classmates -
As an Alaskan, I am writing to give all of you some information on
Sarah Palin, Senator McCain's choice for VP. As an Alaska voter, I
know more than most of you about her and, frankly, I am horrified that
he picked her.
The most accurate description of her is red neck. Her husband works in
the oil fields of Prudhoe Bay and races snow mobiles. She is a life
time member of the NRA and has worked tirelessly to allow
indiscriminate hunting of wildlife in Alaska, particularly wolves and
bears. She has spent millions of Alaska state dollars on aerial
hunting of these predators from helicopters and airplanes, dollars
that should have been spent, for example, on Alaska's failing school
system.We have the lowest rate of high school graduation in the
country. Not all of you may think aerial predator hunting is so bad,
but how anyone (other than Alaska wolf-haters, of which there are
many, most without teeth), could think this use of funds is
appropriate is beyond me. If you want to know more about the aerial
hunting travesty, let me know and I will send some links to
informative web sites.
She has been a strong supporter of increased use of fossil fuels, yet
the McCain campaign has the nerve to say she has "green" policies. The
only thing green about Sarah Palin is her lack of experience. She has
consistently supported drilling in ANWR, use of coal-burning power
plants (as I write this, a new coal plant is being built in her home
town of Wasilla), strip mining, and almost anything else that will
unnecessarily exploit the diminishing resources of Alaska and destroy
its environment.
Prior to her one year as governor of Alaska, she was mayor of Wasilla,
a small red neck town outside Anchorage.The average maximum education
level of parents of junior high school kids in Wasilla is 10th grade.
Unfortunately, I have to go to Wasilla every week to get groceries and
other supplies, so I have continual contact with the people who put
Palin in office in the first place. I know what I'm talking about.
These people don't have a concept of the world around them or of the
serious issues facing the US. Furthermore, they don't care. So long as
they can go out and hunt their moose every fall, kill wolves and bears
and drive their snow mobiles and ATVs through every corner of the
wilderness, they're happy. I wish I were exaggerating.
Sarah Palin is currently involved in a political corruption scandal.
She fired an individual in law enforcement here because she didn't
like how he treated one of her relatives during a divorce. The man's
performance and ability weren't considered; it was a totally personal
firing and is currently under investigation. While the issue isn't
close to the scandal of Ted Steven's corruption, it shows that Palin
isn't "squeaky clean" and causes me to think there ay be more issues
that could come to light. Clearly McCain doesn't care.
When you line Palin up with Biden, the comparison would be laughable
if it weren't so serious. Sarah Palin knows nothing of economics
(admittedly a weak area for McCain), or of international affairs,
knows nothing of national government, Social Security, unemployment,
health care systems - you name it. The idea of her meeting with heads
of foreign governments around the world truly frightens me.
In an increasingly dangerous world, with the economy in shambles in
the US, Sarah Palin is uniquely UNqualified to be vice president. John
McCain is not a young man. Should something happen to him such that
the vice president had to step in, it would destroy our country and
possibly the world to have someone as inexperienced and inappropriate
as Sarah Palin. The choice of Palin is a cheap shot by McCain to try
to get Hillary supporters to vote for him. when McCain introduced her
today, Palin had the nerve to compare herself with Hillary and
Geraldine Ferraro. Sarah Palin, you are no Hillary Clinton.
To those of you who, like me, supported Hilary and were upset that she
did not get the nomination, please don't think that Sarah Palin is a
worthy substitute. If you supported Hillary, regardless of what you
think the media and the democratic party may have done to undermine
her campaign, the person to support now is Obama, not Sarah Palin. To
those of you who are independent or undecided, don't let the choice of
Palin sway you in favor of McCain. Choosing her shows how unqualified
McCain is to be president. To those of you who are conservative, I
guess you have no choice for president. But please try to see how the
poor choice of Palin tells us a great deal about McCain's judgment.
While the political posturing inherent in the choice of Palin is
obvious, the more serious issue is the fact that the VP is, literally,
a heartbeat away from the presidency. Sarah Palin is totally and
unequivocally unqualified to be vice president, let alone president.
I know this is a lengthy and emotional email, but the stakes are high.
I thought it might help for all of you, regardless of political
affiliation, to know something about Palin from someone who has to
live with her administration in Alaska on a daily basis.
Jackie S.
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Post by Jack Carney on Sept 19, 2008 23:19:19 GMT -5
OK I finally got the Obama sticker off my top tube and during the ride home from Louisville converted Charlie to the McCain/Palin camp and have given Aussie Rob ample time to glow after his astounding performance in Wisconsin. Now I will weigh in. The woman who wrote the email cited in the previous post is a condescending self righteous moron who obviously considers herself infinitely superior to all the "rednecks" she is forced to mingle with when she goes to town. She somehow thinks that Sarah Palin's husband is also a "redneck" because he works in the oil fields and races snowmobiles. Hmmm I wonder if any of us hard working triathletes who may not measure up to her impeccable standards would also be considered "rednecks" and incapable of deciding who to vote for? Other than proving her ignorance and blabbering about her superiority to those lesser beings around her, she does not state one fact in the email that would dissuade me from voting for Gov. Palin. She does include a few bald face lies like the political corruption baloney. She conveniently leaves out of that story that the trooper Sarah Palin wanted fired was drinking on the job and had tasered his ten year old stepson. It is amazing to me how the liberal left and especially liberal women completely forget about standing up for women or minorities if they happen to be conservative Republicans or have viewpoints that differ from theirs. The utter hatred on the left and the attempt to slander and slime a woman and her family including the children is astonishing. Never mind Sarah Palin over Biden I would take Sarah Palin over Obama at the top of the ticket as the experience issue is clearly in her corner so if you say she can't be president you also disqualify him. He has done nothing and is more of the same on the Dem side despite all the change nonsense he stutters about. Rob you mention that GW was a governor and that didn't prepare him for his current job. But don't forget about another governor, the former philanderer in chief slick Willie himself who was the savior of the left before Barack showed up. I seem to remember he was a governor of a "gasp" redneck state. And speaking of slick Willie, I bet he is voting for Palin
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Post by Aussie Rob on Sept 19, 2008 23:54:09 GMT -5
Good to see ya Jack! I see you've caught up on your talking points via faux news....excellent! the only thing i disagree with you about in that very solid rant is regarding the experience. Palin was governor for less than 2 years of the least populous state in the union, and mayor of a tiny town of about 5000 for what? 6 years? Yes, i suppose that technically qualifies as 'executive experience'....but as you said, Bush sucked hard, and Clinton did alright despite a few significant mistakes, and they had executive experience. I think this shows us one thing....that being a Gov doesn't really prepare you for being President; the scales are really incomparable. Roll the dice on a Gov....they might be good, or might not despite their "executive experience". Obama is a smart guy (harvard law), worked as a civil rights attorney, and taught constitutional law (so he knows how the country is supposed to work). After that he served 8 years in the state legislature, then moved on to washington for a few years. Is that executive experience? Technically no....but to say that his background does not qualify for President is bull. He understands how things work, and if anything....his past shows that he is very good at transitioning to new roles and excelling at them. When you really look at it. I think his background is deeper, and far more varied than Palin. Remember that this is the woman that is on record as not even understanding what the VP's job is! Cmon dude....it's not really a contest....even if she can see Russia from her state! (seriously, thats an argument?!) I will say though that her pick was an excellent one! Notice we're not talking about McCain? This line of argument has people comparing the top of one ticket to the bottom of the other. Completely pointless since the VP really doesn't do much (someone should tell Palin this, im sure she'll be relieved) and we should be comparing the guys who will actually be running things. Outstanding tactic by the reps, and shows that as far as public manipulation goes, they're way better at it. Shame about the market woes though as they seem to be over shadowing the Palin circus.....but don't worry! McCain says the economy is sound, after going on record a little while back saying he doesn't really understand how it works. Gives me great confidence in the mans ability to lead the nation!
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Chris
Olympic Member
Posts: 121
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Post by Chris on Sept 20, 2008 5:49:36 GMT -5
I highly dislike politics, it always brings out the worst in people, arguing over nothing and things we can barely control, lets all have a group hug, lol. That being said, here is what I have seen. The left seems to just give handouts left and right to people, (you dont have to work, we will take care of you through wellfare and taxing the others who do work hard). The right like to reward individuals who bust the azz, granted it might be oil companies, but they got to there position through some hard work im assuming. Just what it seems like to me. And I do agree with rob here, comparing top to bottom doesnt really work all that well, tis better to compare the tops or the parties. And by the way, I have known several individuals who have law degrees or med degrees, who have no common sense what so ever and I would rather have common sense over "smarts" any day. So that point doesnt exactly wow me.
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Post by Jack Carney on Sept 20, 2008 6:36:45 GMT -5
LOL Aussie on the faux news comments. I see you have memorized the talking points of the dems and CNBC as well. I will take McCain over Obama any day and when I see his ninety plus year old mother at the speeches I assume regardless of the actuaries that he will fulfill his term. One thing I do understand about him is that he intends to keep us safe and will try to control spending. Obama promises everything and says he will cut our taxes. It can't happen. So I will still take the wiser and stronger man over Robin Hood Obama. He will only take from the rich which means everyone who runs a small business and struggles to survive at times despite being "rich" in Obamas book. I thought this guy was supposed to be change he is the same old class warfare, dirty politics Democrat we have seen since I can remember.
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Post by MattCollister on Sept 20, 2008 7:07:56 GMT -5
The Wall Street Journal's take on McCain's judgement in the current economic crisis (specifically, his suggestion that he'd fire the chairman of the SEC):
"In a crisis, voters want steady, calm leadership, not easy, misleading answers that will do nothing to help. Mr. McCain is sounding like a candidate searching for a political foil rather than a genuine solution."
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Post by Brooks Modie on Sept 20, 2008 12:47:23 GMT -5
MarkD,
I think you are going to be waiting a long time to see The Body on the presidential ticket. He is definitely an interesting character and faced some tough times including a $2 billion deficit in Minnesota during his time in office. I think what turns me on most about Jesse is his view of the American politician. His belief is that no matter what level of politics one is elected into, it is their sole responsibility to serve the public that elected them into office. Moreover, he believes that it is morally wrong to make a career out of politics because that shifts the focus of serving the public to serving oneself. This point can be argued both ways, just as most political topics, but I think that if government operated on this one-and-done principle its strategy would be somewhat different.
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Post by JenCollister on Sept 20, 2008 15:22:03 GMT -5
I will take McCain over Obama any day and when I see his ninety plus year old mother at the speeches I assume regardless of the actuaries that he will fulfill his term. Why do you have to bring us actuaries into this debate? Just kidding, I know what Matt Damon said. A actuary friend of mine works with some other actuaries who did look at the actuarial mortality tables. Using standard healthy mortality (GAR 94 for the geeks), the probability that McCain survives 4 years is about 90%. However, if you use the PBGC disability tables (he did receive a disability check from the Navy), his odds of surviving the 4 years goes down to 76%. Got to love us geeks! Regardless of his age, my vote will definitely be for Obama.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Sept 20, 2008 19:45:14 GMT -5
Jack that's bull. Obama as no interest in going after small business, he's going to eliminate capital gains tax....you own a small business, wouldn't that be good for you?
Obama is about looking after the middle class, which is where most of us fall. As such, i hope he wins. If you feel that McCain better serves your interests as a citizen and a business owner than that's your prerogative i suppose.
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Post by Jack Carney on Sept 20, 2008 23:18:59 GMT -5
Rob I know that you can't have all the programs he says he will implement without someone paying for it. He is proposing 287 billion in new spending. He has already said he is going to eliminate the Bush tax cuts so that is an increase right off the bat and any tax increase will hurt small business. No ones taxes will be lowered with Obama just watch and see if he is elected.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Sept 21, 2008 8:47:13 GMT -5
He's eliminating the tax breaks for big business, as well as for companies that outsource overseas. That, coupled with scaling back our presence in Iraq (currently costing us $2B a week) will go a long way to funding his programs
ll bet you a beer that if elected, the middle class gets some tax relief.
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Post by MattCollister on Sept 21, 2008 11:03:50 GMT -5
Rob, this is between you and Jack. But a bit of advice. I wouldn't bet much more than a beer on anything either of these guys say at this point.
Dont know if you're following the news, but the govt is making a $700B investment in black holes.
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Post by sidmcmahon on Sept 21, 2008 13:10:00 GMT -5
I have been following politics for most of my adult life. Other than Dennis Kucinich, Obama is probably as far left as any candidate I can remember. Most of his solutions to problems the country has, is big governement. I am with Jack on this one. I would be shocked if all his entitlements do not cost us all a bunch of money. Just can not see the math adding up.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Sept 21, 2008 16:18:52 GMT -5
That's true too Matt. I grew up hearing an old saying from my mum.
"It doesn't matter who you vote for, you always get a politician."
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