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Post by MattCollister on Sept 21, 2008 18:06:14 GMT -5
Sid,
It's been a long time since the math has added up. I believe Federal spending has grown under every administration since FDR (someone correct me if that's wrong...but I am pretty sure that's the case). Liberal. Conservative. Democrat. Republican. Doesn't matter. And for all the neo-conservative bluster, George W Bush, working for six of his eight years with a Republican congress, has increased federal spending the most of any president since Johnson. Federal spending outpaces economic growth. Our federal deficit is huge. We're in debt to other countries by $10 trillion.
Spending trillions on Iraq, but still haven't seen the light on health care, social security, medicare, energy, competing globally, and so many other issues.
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Post by alison on Sept 22, 2008 8:54:00 GMT -5
There are more than just two people running for president. Don't forget about those third party candidates. In the state of Ohio there should be six candidates on the ballot, representing Democrat, Republican, Green, Libertarian, and Socialist along with an Independent. I for one and happy that we have such choices. Not all states will have such a diverse list of candidates.
Alison
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mnowac
Olympic Member
"Once in awhile you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right" JG
Posts: 117
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Post by mnowac on Sept 22, 2008 14:12:54 GMT -5
I stay out of the political discussions for the most part as I swing FAR left, give me a president who never mentions gay marriage or abortion and I'll be happy. I just think it's interesting to see how differently people look at things. Chris mentioned that Palin is an NRA member, fishes, and wants to drill for oil, 3 pluses in his mind. As soon as I read that I thought,, those are 3 reasons I fear for her running our country if McCain should pass away!
Well maybe the fishing doesn't scare me so badly, just the aerial wolf hunting and bloody picture of her holding a corpse of a caribou next to her son in last months People magazine. Oh and the photo I saw of her in a stars and stripe bikini standing next to a pool holding a giant gun. Yikes.
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Post by Charlie on Sept 22, 2008 15:28:27 GMT -5
Sorry Jack, based on Monica's last post, I have swung back to the left. NOT VEGAN!
I am also a bit concerned that the dollar will be weaker then the Peso for IM Mexico following the bail out.......NO new taxes?......Looks good on paper, but I have my doubts.
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Post by Jack Carney on Sept 22, 2008 16:42:36 GMT -5
Charlie I told you I am addicted to the Vegan chicken at Whole Foods I don't know if it will get in my brain and turn me your way but you never know.
Monica that photo of her in the bikini is a fake. I think she would look much better than that.
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Post by Charlie on Sept 22, 2008 17:21:29 GMT -5
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jbird
Olympic Member
"It's good to be alive'
Posts: 99
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Post by jbird on Sept 23, 2008 6:47:28 GMT -5
I hate the whole left and right issues. I will vote for the candidate I trust most. Obama has ambitious goals for sure. National health care sounds expensive, especially for the middle class. IE, taxed to death. Take it from someone dealing with cancer in their child's life. Everyone deserves good health care. And that means not only the persons living in poverty. No politicians can guarantee all that they promise. It is up to the nation as a whole to stand up, speak out, and demand change. What this election has done more than any in my memories is to ignite peoples passions and wants for change. This war in Iraq, gas prices, stock market wows, and so much more, can't be fixed quickly. I think as a whole, Americans can and will rally behind Obama more over than McCain IMO.
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Post by Jack Carney on Sept 23, 2008 22:41:18 GMT -5
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Post by benmiralia on Sept 24, 2008 12:50:02 GMT -5
1. Clinton- 8 years- 2 trillion dollar surplus
Bush -8 years- 12 trillion dollar deficit
Forget about a balanced budget. No matter who is elected the recent bailout has eliminated any hope of that happening in the foreseeable future.
2. Say you are hiring a manger and have 4 candidates to choose from. They need to be able to manage a diverse group of people and have a basic understanding of economics, politics, education, foreign affairs and government, Who would you choose
Obama
Occidental College- (a rigorous liberal arts college in L.A. 2 years studying politics and public policy
Columbia University- BA political Science with a specialization in international relations
Harvard Law School- Juris Doctor; Magna Cum Laude; Editor in chief of the Harvard Law Review
Biden
University of Delaware- Double Major-
BA in History
BA in Political Science
Syracuse University College of Law- Juris Doctor
McCain
United States Naval Academy- Class Rank 894 out of 899
Palin
Hawaii Pacific University- 1 semester- business administration
North Idaho College- 2 semesters- General Studies
University of Idaho- 2 semesters- journalism
Matanuska -Sustina College- 1 semester
University of Idaho- 3 semesters- B.A in journalism
nuff said
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Post by MarkD on Sept 24, 2008 15:18:23 GMT -5
Ben - If those college/academy statistics are correct, that's downright scary... So, not only is Palin inexperienced, she has no acedemic background either. OUCH. I'm shocked that this isn't a huge media subject (maybe it is - other than football in the fall, I rarely watch TV). ps: She's still "hot" !! Here's a funny story for you all: On my way to the airport the other day, I was making small talk with my kids. I asked them: "who do you like, McCain or Obama". Here are their exact answers: 4 year old: "I like John McCain" (note, I never said his first name, he must have picked it up from the television). I asked him "why". He said: "Because I like him". (again, he's 4). 7 year old: "I like Obama". I asked him "why". He said: "Because he cares about health". The power of television !! So there you have it. I'm a confused independent and my kids couldn't even help me decide. Maybe, I'll go with a 3rd party no-name... Better yet - I'll sell my vote to the highest bidder. Let the bidding begin. GO.  |
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Post by Aussie Rob on Sept 24, 2008 19:19:26 GMT -5
Doren is already acting as my proxy vote, but ill buy yours for 2 beers and a dozen wings. I need 2 votes. One to cancel out Jack's, and one go ahead vote.  |
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Post by MarkD on Sept 24, 2008 21:44:01 GMT -5
OK Republicans.... it's time to up the bidding. I'm voting Obama unless I get more than 2 beers and 12 wings. I will require at least a 50% increase in value before I switch. |
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Post by Aussie Rob on Sept 24, 2008 21:57:50 GMT -5
I love a man of true principal.
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Post by Charlie on Sept 24, 2008 22:18:26 GMT -5
I would require a lot more alcohol than what is being offered to vote for the GOP ticket....A lot more!
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Post by Jack Carney on Sept 24, 2008 23:41:45 GMT -5
Here's an article I found that helps explain why the Clinton surplus is a fairy tale www.letxa.com/articles/16Clinton left as the Internet bubble was bursting and the economy was looking weaker. That incident on September 11, 2001 had something to do with the economic downturn and increase in spending don't you think? If Clinton had captured Bin Laden when he had the chance maybe it wouldnt have even happened. What place John McCain graduated means nothing. It is what he did afterwards that matters. He went and served his country and endured things that none of us would want to imagine. And Harvard educated Barack who doesn't even know how many states there are (don't they teach that at Harvard??), was a community organizer, whatever that is, and associated with people like William Ayers an America hating terrorist that bombed his own country and other America haters like Reverend Jeremiah Wright. That is another thing I have to question about his intellect. He sat for twenty years listening but never heard a thing. Sarah Palin is a breath of fresh air and the hatred of her from the left and their horrible attacks on her family just shows their fear of her. She may not have the education but she certainly has the respect of America and she has worked her way up the ladder and is running a state which is more than Obama has done. I would take her over Obama at the top of the ticket. Joe Biden is very likeable but he also has a bit of a credibility problem as he tend to embellish a bit if you know what I mean. We are hiring the commander in chief not someone to manage our widget company. And it takes more than some fancy degrees. |
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Post by benmiralia on Sept 25, 2008 8:28:48 GMT -5
Jack- I could find a hundred articles that say the exact opposite. We could play that game all day. What I fail to understand is how the party of fiscal responsibility can still support a president who has never seen a spending bill he didn't like. Well, until one was proposed by a democratic congress. You could twist it around all you like, but at the end of the day we are still talking a 14 trillion dollar difference in 8 years and the president has just asked congress to increase the ceiling to 13 trillion dollars to pay for the bailout. Another policy, by the way, that is anathema to your party. If a democrat had presided over this administrations spending you would be screaming for his impeachment.
While I appreciate John McCains service to his country I fail to see how becoming a prisoner of war qualifies him to be president. I would be more swayed by his time in congress and his ability to reach across the aisle except for the fact that your party seems to despise him for that. You seem t be more interested in the fact that he is the only presidential candidate who had to eat rats to survive rather than for his tireless devotion to his ideals no matter who he has to step over to honor them.
If you want to talk about being treated unfairly perhaps you should review the Fox News archives and the terrible things that were said about Hillary Clinton during the primaries. Including being called a b-i-t-c-h by more than one commentator. It doesn't become your party to display such a double standard nor does it benefit Ms. Palin to be shielded from the press when every other candidate is fair game for questions from the field. It makes her appear unprepared and lacking the knowledge needed to answer the tough questions. Quoting a Fox commentator talking about Hillary. "Oooh, she is scared by the big boys. What is she going to do when the big boys in Russia or the big boys in the Middle East or the big boys in North Korea start rattling their sabres?"
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Post by kenb321 on Sept 25, 2008 8:43:31 GMT -5
Jack is right. A fancy advanced degree means nothing. George W. Bush has a MBA from Harvard, and look how that has gone for us.
Seriously, Jack you have got to be kidding. Sarah Palin is a "breath of fresh air". In what way? She is an idealogical twin to the current administration. Her answers are far too simplistic for the complex issues. What am I saying? She doesn't give answers because she does not allow questions. Her answers are talking points that contradict McCain's stances. And then they have to be fixed by handlers. An example of this would be her answer on Pakistan raids. She says that everything needs to be done. McCain opposes this tactic. Her handlers clarified her answers.
Did anyone watch the President last night? Was this Econ 101? "The problem is we have too many houses and not enough people to buy these houses" If I bought a house within my means and the value of this house has dropped, but I can still make payments, will my morgtage be adusted? Maybe I should have bought a $500,000 Mcmansion on a VAR mortgage and then been bailed out by the government.
There is no reason to award the party that is currently in power with 4 more years. What else could they fornicate up?
9/11, Guatanomo, Katrina, CIA leaks, Justice department, assault on the English language, extreme executive branch authority, illegal phone taps, and on and on and on....
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Post by Charlie on Sept 25, 2008 9:49:36 GMT -5
Bush ignored the Clinton warnings on Bin Laden and cut the Budget devoted to this issue.
Bush has had 7 years to capture him........Nada.
Any Politicion in Chicago has to work with Ayers. He has yet to ever be charged with that bombing.
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Post by Jack Carney on Sept 25, 2008 10:28:01 GMT -5
Ben those are actual numbers from the treasury showing deficits. No matter how you try to spin it I can't find the trillions of dollars you say Clinton left us. Do you not remember the technology collapse of the stock market in the late nineties? I do very clearly. Was that all Clintons fault? No of course not any more than everything that happened between then and now was Bush's.
I agree GW spent too much money trying to work with the likes of Teddy Kennedy and the other dems who have given away the farm trying to create a society of people dependent on the government for the last forty years. And he has made many other mistakes I am not disputing that fact. If you try to blame the current financial crisis only on him you are barking up the wrong tree because both parties share that blame in a ton of ways. What the heck has the democratic congress done the last few years?
As far as Hillary Clinton most of the terrible things said weren't said by Fox they were said by Obama and the rest of the democrats that were swooning over him. Not to mention the rest of the liberal media that threw her under the bus. I actually felt sorry for her at times they way they treated her.
No, eating rats doesn't qualify John McCain to be president any more than being at the bottom of his class disqualifies him but it certainly is a feather in his cap in my book especially staying when he could have left. But Obama hanging out with terrorists and America haters like his pastor disqualifies him for me immediately in addition to his complete lack of other qualifications.
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Post by Jack Carney on Sept 25, 2008 10:40:38 GMT -5
Bush ignored the Clinton warnings on Bin Laden and cut the Budget devoted to this issue. Bush has had 7 years to capture him........Nada. Any Politicion in Chicago has to work with Ayers. He has yet to ever be charged with that bombing. Charlie didn't you listen during the drive back from Louisville? I thought I had finally educated you. Clinton warning Bush about Bin Laden is a joke he shouldn't have had to warn him he should have been dead but Willie was more worried about politics than our safety and didn't grab him or kill him when he was offered on a platter. Not capturing Bin Laden is disappointing I will admit. But his organization has been in disarray and we have not had another attack here. Thats a good thing. Saying you have to work with Bill Ayers because he is a Chicago politician is a great example of zero principles. He didn't need to be charged with it he brags about his association with the cop killers and bombers and says he wishes he had done more. |
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Post by Jack Carney on Sept 25, 2008 10:54:35 GMT -5
An example of this would be her answer on Pakistan raids. She says that everything needs to be done. McCain opposes this tactic. Her handlers clarified her answers. Did anyone watch the President last night? Was this Econ 101? "The problem is we have too many houses and not enough people to buy these houses" If I bought a house within my means and the value of this house has dropped, but I can still make payments, will my morgtage be adusted? Maybe I should have bought a $500,000 Mcmansion on a VAR mortgage and then been bailed out by the government. There is no reason to award the party that is currently in power with 4 more years. What else could they fornicate up? 9/11, Guatanomo, Katrina, CIA leaks, Justice department, assault on the English language, extreme executive branch authority, illegal phone taps, and on and on and on.... Obama talked about bombing Pakistan our ally - who needs handlers? He can't even speak without a teleprompter and as far as the butcher of the language Obama is the master of the uhs and ums and ahhs 9/11 ? I thought Al Quaida did that not Bush. Guantanomo was a joke. Way too concerned with how we treat terrorists. Phone taps and exec branch authority to try to keep us safe - OK with me. OK thats it for me I need to get some work done I will need to make a bunch of money to pay my taxes if the Messiah gets elected. |
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Post by kenb321 on Sept 25, 2008 10:58:06 GMT -5
Jack, by your logic then Sarah Palin should be discounted for her association with the Alaska Independance Party. If they want to secede, I think that qualifies as America hating.
And what is with her droppin' the "g" from the words she is sayin'. It's makin' her sound f*&!in' dumb not folksy.
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Post by Jack Carney on Sept 25, 2008 12:56:52 GMT -5
Jack, by your logic then Sarah Palin should be discounted for her association with the Alaska Independance Party. If they want to secede, I think that qualifies as America hating. And what is with her droppin' the "g" from the words she is sayin'. It's makin' her sound f*&!in' dumb not folksy. You need to do better research all the nonsense about this has been disproven long ago along with all the other BS. |
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Post by Angie on Sept 25, 2008 13:16:41 GMT -5
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Post by kenb321 on Sept 25, 2008 15:18:01 GMT -5
sarah Palin did attend 1 possibly 2 AIP conventions. Her husband was a registered member of the party. Bush was the President during 9/11. Therefore, he does deserve some blame. Gitmo is a concentration camp. Holding people without cause or trial is against all that we stand for in the US. Illegal wire tapping is ILLEGAL. there were legal mechanisms to allow for wire taps. This administration just did not think that the rules applied to them. I always love that argument of "if you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about". Who then decides if you are doing something wrong? What is the definition of wrong? Slippery slope arguments are the best.
maybe a pause or an "um" would be better than the crap that flows from Bush's mouth.
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Post by MarkD on Sept 25, 2008 17:18:45 GMT -5
I'm still waitin' for a conservative to put their money where their mouth is and BUY MY VOTE !! I'm undecided and independant. The liberals have offered 2 beers and 12 wings. ps: You can charge it to my PayPal account. I'm sure your credit is good |
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Post by Charlie on Sept 25, 2008 17:40:38 GMT -5
Bill Ayers contributed $200 to an Obama campaign. They both sat on the board for a fund to help end poverty. The Woods fund. Ayers is a UIC Prof. Here is what ayers has to say about the "I wish I had done more" comments. billayers.wordpress.com/2008/04/06/episodic-notoriety-fact-and-fantasy/I don't see an alarming connection. Clinton and Bush missed opportunity's. Spy plane photos of a tall man in a robe can hardly be called a silver platter. |
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Post by Aussie Rob on Sept 25, 2008 19:05:14 GMT -5
Education is not a relevant requisite to being President now Jack? Really? Cmon dude.
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Post by Jack Carney on Sept 26, 2008 0:00:01 GMT -5
Education is not a relevant requisite to being President now Jack? Really? Cmon dude. Who said that Aussie? Not me. I said that the education stats that Ben pointed out (he forgot to mention Biden graduated 506th of 688 in his class at the University of Delaware) didn't disqualify anyone. As was pointed out in an earlier post GW has a pretty good education but you guys don't give him much credit for being very smart. It takes leadership, character and determination to be a good commander in chief not just a degree from a fancy school. |
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Post by Papa Louie on Sept 26, 2008 7:48:41 GMT -5
Nothing about Chuck Baldwin? He is the ONLY one that is for our long lost Constitution. All others FAIL.
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