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Post by Aussie Rob on Jan 8, 2009 12:02:53 GMT -5
I know some of you masochists are Browns fans. What do you guys think of the new head coach? He doesn't come with the best record, but he's been to the playoffs and has head coach experience. Think it's a good move to hire him before hiring a GM?
Will it work? Or will the Browns continue to suck thus keeping the universe as we know it in order?
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Post by robreddy on Jan 8, 2009 14:19:24 GMT -5
does not matter who the coach is - having now watched the Browns up close for 7 years it is clear that the problem lies in the owner and organization. Bluntly put - the Browns are one of a hand full of NFL teams that are simply disfunctional. They may have a winning seasons here and there - make a play-off appearance on occassion. But they wont be a consistent year after year winner until the organization gets its act together and a long term consistent system is put into place that has grounded rules and principles driving it.
Sad for the city - though I'm not a Browns fan I do believe you all deserve FAR better than what you are getting (and paying for).
r
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Post by ebanks2 on Jan 8, 2009 14:26:55 GMT -5
there is always next year.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Jan 8, 2009 15:11:57 GMT -5
You think Learner is the problem? From what i understand, Mangini is big on discipline so that should help.
Frankly, i just want to see the Browns make the playoffs a couple of years in a row. Winter here is bad enough without 50% of the population being further depressed because the Browns suck.
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Post by MattCollister on Jan 8, 2009 17:24:20 GMT -5
He seems very seven-and-nine-ish to me.
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Chris
Olympic Member
Posts: 121
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Post by Chris on Jan 8, 2009 18:23:40 GMT -5
like eric said, the cleveland moto, theres always next year
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Post by MarkD on Jan 9, 2009 17:06:02 GMT -5
The Browns have developed no depth over the past 9 years. Their starters can compete with anyone. Once the starters get injured, they bring in all-MAC players to fill in - doesn't work. The organization needs to build a solid 2-deep foundation then retool based on contract years left at the various positions.
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Post by philjolliff on Jan 10, 2009 15:05:31 GMT -5
Go Browns. I like Mangini as a hire. As usual, Browns fans will complain about it. But they wanted someone with head coaching experience and they got what they asked for. This guy sounds like he will at least hold the players accountable.
I don't think any hire can really be judged until you see the product on the field. While I'm not very hopeful that this product will be any better than the previous version....
Here's hoping that they find a coach or GM that they can stick with for several years to actual bring some continuity into the mix. It is the only way they won't ALWAYS be rebuilding.
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Post by MattCollister on Jan 11, 2009 10:12:23 GMT -5
There was all that talk of getting a "brand" coach, like a Parcells, a Cowher, a Belichick, etc. A proven winner. I don't think they got that. They'll be looking for a new coach by 2012.
I'd love to be proven wrong. I'm just not impressed by a guy who went 23-26 in four seasons, and got fired after his team blew a shot at the playoffs. They might as well just have kept Crennell and saved us the trouble.
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Post by Charlie on Jan 11, 2009 11:05:41 GMT -5
Did Lerner promise to sell if the Crennel/Savage team failed?. I think he did. Where is Dick Jacobs?
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Post by philjolliff on Jan 11, 2009 13:27:58 GMT -5
We'll wait and see how this all pans out. I just don't think there was anyone "better" available.
This really is Lerner's last chance. There are many sources that say this is the last rebuild he has left in him.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Jan 11, 2009 14:18:26 GMT -5
There were better guys available. However, none of them wanted to coach here.
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Post by Jack Carney on Jan 11, 2009 22:01:11 GMT -5
Wonder why they didn't want to come here? We have this nice weather, thriving economy, great taxation system, great state and city government. Hard to imagine.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Jan 11, 2009 22:46:11 GMT -5
Exactly.
People always say "but we offered the same money as san francisco!" not realising that you're seeling more than just the team on the contract....but the city itself; and frankly, as much as i like it (hate the latitude) most people dont see it in a good light.
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Post by Jack Carney on Jan 12, 2009 0:03:53 GMT -5
Yep we are getting mugged by the State of Ohio department of Taxation who after making us prove that our vendors (landscapers, flooring contractors, labor providers etc...) paid sales tax and after we spent thousands on attorneys to prove they did, are now telling us they don't like our explanation and that we owe them $100K in taxes and penalties. I asked the guy if he wondered why people are not relocating here and so many are leaving. What an F'd up state. Lousy weather, high taxes, and very business unfriendly. Adds up to trouble long term. What business would want to come here?
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Post by Charlie on Jan 12, 2009 11:18:07 GMT -5
The NFL
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Post by robreddy on Jan 12, 2009 11:21:56 GMT -5
my take on this is that a NFL head coach could care less about the "quality of life" in any given city when they make a decision about where to accept a job. From what I read they work 24/7 during the season (how ever you define that) and then leave town during the off seasons - if they don;t leave town, well they make FAR more than enogh scratch to vacation ANY place they want. What do I think they care about besides control and GM -
1. fan base 2. ownership 3. history of team 4. reputation of team
My gut tells me the Browns are lacking in all 4 at the moment - thus top tear coaches are taking a pass at offers and you are left with bottom tear fired head coaches, high ranking assistant coaches and head college coaches that would potentially accept a browns offer.
r
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Post by Jack Carney on Jan 12, 2009 13:19:06 GMT -5
Until they get a better offer from another town. That's why I could care less about the NFL to begin with. Cleveland was too stupid to do the right things to keep the Browns but let's face it loyalty in business and especially the sports business, is a thing of the past. It is dollars and cents - period. They would bail in a second if it made business sense.
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Post by timritt on Jan 12, 2009 15:29:10 GMT -5
what we need are more honest gas sales men. If the browns would start drafting better players instead of the rejects they have been, being a head coach in this town wouldn't be so bad.
tr
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Post by Charlie on Jan 12, 2009 15:48:54 GMT -5
The whole move was a set up. Al Lerner and The NFL knew they had a fan base here that will accept anything. Cleveland was forced into providing welfare for a billionaire by building a stadium.
Crappy product with public financing= Big Profit. It is a great business opportunity. A true model of capitalism.
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Post by MattCollister on Jan 12, 2009 16:16:22 GMT -5
Tim, I never listen to the season ticket holders. I told you that before. These guys can win. They just need some leadership.
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Post by timritt on Jan 12, 2009 17:51:50 GMT -5
Matt
keep drafting the wimbleys, faines, couchs, brown, northcutts, edwards, morgan, thomas, winslow, poole, jones, thompson, johnsons, and quinns of the world in the first and second round and you will suck. not one good player in that group. How joe thomas made the pro bowl is beyond me hes an average left tackle on lousy offensive line. Winslow would have been a star if he wasn't such a headcase but you knew that when you drafted him. Coaching would help but we got do better on the players. Best player on the team was traded for from detroit Rogers. 2nd best was a undrafted free agent in josh cribbs. We didn't draft either. Gots to get better at this or we will always suck. 2nd best player we have had here next to rogers was Jamir miller and he was signed from AZ. That track record of drafting and free agent signings is why you end up with Donte Stallworth for 26 mill over 5 years. Case closed.
I also think they should have hired russ grimm as the head coach but i'm fine with mangini. Its the talent evaluator that we need to find.
tr
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Post by Charlie on Jan 12, 2009 18:14:31 GMT -5
You forgot Warren and Green?
They got a good one with Henry.
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Post by philjolliff on Jan 13, 2009 8:17:56 GMT -5
The sad part about that is that Faine has turned into one of the best center's in the league since he left Cleveland! I still believe that Tim Couch could have succeeded and been a good NFL QB if he had been drafted by a team other than the Browns with a solid offensive line in place.
Cleveland got a raw deal when the expansion team came. The deal that Houston got, or that Carolina/Jacksonville got when they expanded into those cities was far better in terms of draft picks, expansion draft rules, and organizational structure.
Oh well, no point in crying about it. We'll see what happens in the next few years under Mangini and GM-to-be-named-later. Go Browns!
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Post by gvale on Jan 13, 2009 8:42:37 GMT -5
Lets not forget the steller draft pick of James Jacksons and Jeremiah Pharms. And we all questioned the pick of a Long Snapper.
So whats wrong with Mangini? Who else would you like to see as the Browns Coach?
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Post by Charlie on Jan 13, 2009 10:58:12 GMT -5
On the bright side, of the two major league cities in Ohio, we have a Mike Brown capable of winning something. Thats where my attention is. GO Cavs!
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Post by Jack Carney on Jan 13, 2009 19:03:39 GMT -5
The whole move was a set up. Al Lerner and The NFL knew they had a fan base here that will accept anything. Cleveland was forced into providing welfare for a billionaire by building a stadium. Crappy product with public financing= Big Profit. It is a great business opportunity. A true model of capitalism. You are giving the leaders of this city way too much credit. They are not even close to smart enough to figure out a scheme like that. Just look at the wasted lakefront which they wasted more with an 8 game venue. Tim is right we need to concentrate on more honest gas salesmen.
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Post by Charlie on Jan 13, 2009 20:14:52 GMT -5
Lerner and the NFL set the thing up...Mike White wanted no part of it.
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Post by Brian Luther on Jan 14, 2009 11:36:30 GMT -5
For Lerner, I think the Browns are not worth the headaches..... Mangini, or any other coach, for that matter, will have a "huge task in front of them".......
Simple put, can the Browns become successful? Ever win a "superbowl"?
Brian
p.s. what is the chance Mangini can turn the Browns around? %
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Post by philjolliff on Jan 14, 2009 13:36:51 GMT -5
Yes, they can become successful. Someday....... and perhaps even win a superbowl in my lifetime. I'm giving them 50-60 more years hopefully that is enough.
Mangini turning them around? If you mean just making them competitive (8 wins 2 straight years within the next 5 years perhaps, because the 2009 schedule is looking a lot like the 2007 schedule in terms of ease so we don't want any illusions) - I say 50% chance of that happening
Turning them around completely and making the Browns a respectable franchise - 12.5%
You are talking to a guy who has a Browns House Key so my judgment is skewed but I try to be realistic.
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