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Post by Brian Luther on Mar 15, 2008 23:29:55 GMT -5
I know, Hillary or Barak, may not be able to lower the price per gallon, yet how will we make it through this price jump!!!!!! ?  Between everyone maxing out their credit cards and declaring bankruptcy because of their high mortgages...... How will we make it through this crazy downturn in the "Economy of The 21st Century"? And to top off this increase at the gas pump, jobs are leaving the Cleveland and Ohio area just as fast as the "gas prices keep growing" How will we get through this?  Brian |
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Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 16, 2008 9:04:05 GMT -5
Curb our spending and behavior. The USA still enjoys gas prices of about 50% compared to the rest of the world. Everyone else manages, we can too.
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Post by Matt Luck on Mar 16, 2008 15:42:55 GMT -5
Understanding is econ 101
Gas is a commodity and sold on the futures market. This is how the market price is determined.
The cost of pumping the oil does not change once the well is drilled.
The best way to understand the futures market is the watch trading places.
The current problem with the futures market involves the ability to purchase oil futures on a low margin value, speculation. If you remember from your American History Class, this was one of the causes of the Great Depression. A way for the government to curb this out of control speculation in the futures market is for the Federal Reserve to raise the percentage needed to secure a purchase on the oil futures. There is recent precedent by the Fed, however, not under the current board membership.
Simply stated: If the current price of oil is $110.00 a barrel, someone buying on the futures market may only need to put up 30% of the actual cost of their purchase. By raising the margin to 45%-50% you limit the amount of speculation by increasing the risk. The investor has more to lose, his own money.
Rob is right the problem is that you cannot have gas prices double in the course of 2 years without significant ramifications to the economy. The economy will correct itself but an economic slowdown is inevitable, especially with the condition of the housing market.
That would be a whole other post.
I regularly meet with business owners, even being a teacher, I find it valuable and rewarding to meet and learn from business owners. They continue to harp on the regulations in place by the EPA. I do not want to see the rivers burn or a dead lake. But, I do believe that business will stay in Ohio and USA if government makes it affordable to do business. Regulations should spur economic growth and promote a cleaner environment with strangulating business.
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Post by bberk1 on Mar 16, 2008 17:07:10 GMT -5
They just want us to bike around more. Right?
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Post by Jack Carney on Mar 16, 2008 17:10:47 GMT -5
Curb our spending and behavior. The USA still enjoys gas prices of about 50% compared to the rest of the world. Everyone else manages, we can too. You might enjoy these prices I don't. Let's not settle for something just because someone else does. That is not the American way. We need to get self reliant and develop new sources of energy. How does that happen? I will tell you how, let the evil corporations know they can make obscene profits without all the regulations and they will make it happen. I also think we should promote global warming so we can ride our bikes to work year round without worrying about the cold. |
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Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 16, 2008 18:06:14 GMT -5
Why would big oil invest in renewable energy when they're making record profits off crude? Although i agree that good old American inginuity needs to go to work developing some alternatives, and the government should be not only letting them, but encouraging them with tax breaks and rebates.
People also have to realise that the cost of oil isn't increasing as much as our currency is tanking. The greenback is down against everything....yen, euro, aussie dollar, yuan, whatever. Since crude is traded on greenbacks, it makes sense that as the greenback devalues, things become relitively more expensive....oil included. The USA is starting to feel the sqeeze of living like you have a strong robust currency, when in reality it's in the toilet.
After a winter like this Jack your global warming idea sounds great for a while....until it triggers the next ice age! Then we get winter all year round! Boooo!
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Post by Jack Carney on Mar 16, 2008 18:42:04 GMT -5
Rob you must have watched Al Gores fairy tale oops I meant documentary. I wonder why we had the previous ice ages? Must have been dinosaurs farting or something non taxable that people like Gore couldnt have regulated.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 16, 2008 19:31:52 GMT -5
Cmon man, give me a little credit will ya?
Sure there will be another ice age, this warm period of the last 12 000 years or so is the exception for the planet, not the norm. However, do we really want to prematurely trigger the next one? If we melt the ice caps, that's exactly what we'll do. Without the ice caps, we'll have nothing to cool the warm ocean waters that flow north, sink, then flow south, and the current will stop. If the current stops, we lose the warm water that flows north and basically keeps the northern hemisphere somewhat temperate most of the year, especially in winter.
Besides, as ive told ya before. Gore probably would have initiated a big push into green industry, and America probably would have been at the forefront of all this new industry. Even if you hate the idea of global warming, you gotta love the creation of new primary, secondary, and tertiary industry in the USA. More industry, more jobs, more money....all good. It's a shame that it was Gore who had the doco....he made it a partisan issue purely because of who he was.
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Post by Jack Carney on Mar 17, 2008 5:29:16 GMT -5
We have no more caused it than we have the power to stop it. It is nature and that has been pointed out by many scientists who are quickly demonized by the left as right wing tools.
Guess we will just have to wait a few thousand years and see who was right. Or if it going to happen next week as the sky is falling crowd says it doesn't matter anyway.
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Post by Aussie Rob on Mar 17, 2008 6:22:50 GMT -5
The final few hold outs that refuse to acknowledge our impact are dwindling by the day in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. There is a reason they are considered outcasts by the scientific community; no better than the 'scientists' that said smoking isn't bad for you back in the day. Nevermind that the oil companies are paying big bucks on a misinformation campaign.
The sky isn't falling, but there is a serious issue that needs to be addressed rather than just saying "ahh balony! everything's fine!". Everything isn't fine, and frankly, why would you want to gamble with it anyway? Considering we have to live on this planet....shouldn't we be playing it safe anyway? The alternative sure is a lot worse should it come to fruition.
Just curious Jack. Have you watched Gore's doco? Not that that is the only way to get info (ive been on board for years, back when we were still calling it the greenhouse effect in Australia), but it is worth watching.
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Post by Jack Carney on Mar 17, 2008 10:45:15 GMT -5
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Post by Brent on Mar 17, 2008 17:23:45 GMT -5
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Post by Brian Luther on Apr 2, 2008 7:33:51 GMT -5
To all those Texas Oil Barron's who are uable to explain to Congress why they are having record breaking profits.......... And they still are asking for more and more tax breaks..... Looks like my wallet will be pretty empty this Summer..... Thanks Mr. Bush |
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Post by TimAckley on Apr 2, 2008 8:06:55 GMT -5
How is it Bush's fault gas prices are so high?  I wish Bush would speed up the Global Warming alittle bit, maybe Drop a few more big Bombs.. so in the month of March we would start to see 60 Degree weather here in Ohio.. ;D |
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Post by Jack Carney on Apr 2, 2008 8:29:21 GMT -5
Without going into an economics lesson lets suffice to say that the world market and not GW or the TX oil companies control oil prices.
Now if you want to talk about the banks who gouge consumers unmercifully with trick rates and a new fee for every time the wind blows I might move from my conservative stance toward some government regulation. These theives make loan sharks look ethical.
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Post by sarajean on Apr 2, 2008 9:20:32 GMT -5
I don't know what's causing the price increases, but is everyone here familiar with this site, which tells the lowest gas prices in the area? www.clevelandgasprices.com/ |
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Post by Brian Luther on Apr 2, 2008 10:13:37 GMT -5
Yes its "Bush Jr's" fault.......
Mainly because he stinks at public speaking, "the most important forum to the American public"....... Oh, yea, not to mention his addition to the Websters dictionary...... "Stratigery"---- defined as one, who can not speak in public too well, and his a loss for words precedes himself.....
As for the Banks, do tell me more about those issues..... I would love to support the Ohio economy, yet I am ready to take all of my money out of National City Bank, this afternoon.....
FDIC insured or not, I want access to my money without any complications of a bank falling apart........
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Post by Aussie Rob on Apr 2, 2008 10:16:24 GMT -5
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Post by Aussie Rob on Apr 2, 2008 10:53:32 GMT -5
Gas isn't going up per say, just the dollar is tanking....and that, you can pin on the executive branches from Regan forward.
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Post by sarajean on Apr 2, 2008 11:13:34 GMT -5
I should know better than to believe radio talk show hosts without checking my facts first... |
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Post by Brian Luther on Apr 2, 2008 12:31:35 GMT -5
In reference to global warming on mars...........
Its a simple fact that the human race plays a part in the world environment........... Good or bad, hot or cold, global warming or not..... May it be a warmer century, or a colder one, the human race will always have an effect on the environment and weather......
The world as a whole, is in the middle of the population explosion, that which "mother earth/nature has never seen before. How will it change our climate ? Only Al Gore knows ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Aussie Rob on Apr 2, 2008 12:34:05 GMT -5
You're a weird dude windrunner  |
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Post by andrew on Apr 2, 2008 14:15:18 GMT -5
if the media shut their pie-holes - about this recession we are entering - that would be a great start
we are not entering a recession - we are smack bang in the middle of one.
by the time the media acknowledges the recession has arrived - we will be well and truly on the way out.
So many things right now are depressing the US economy. The finalization of the upcoming election will remove some uncertainty - regardless of who gets in - historically there has always been a bump following an election.
the housing market is downright horrible - but many believe it has bottomed out and may slowly (ever so slowly) start to rebound
the cuts by the fed in the interest rate have done little on the consumer/home-owner front - but have given relief to some of the large financial institutions who were teetering on the edge of collapse.
With the knowledge and a slightly elevated confidence in the security of the banks - we saw a surge in the markets yesterday - the THIRD best day of the year so far - that's not saying much given its been such a crappy year.
I think gas prices are just being felt more this year - because everyone is tightening their belts.
gas prices always go up around holidays andinto the summer - I saw a chain email claiming that if we all stopped buying gas from two of the big oil companies - the ones which drive the dollar per barrel price - then they will be forced to lower their prices and drive the trend downwards - I don;'t know I buy into that either.
the US economy sucks right now - there is no other way to define it - a LOT of people and businesses are hurting and yes - a lot of business is leaving the NE Ohio area.
it's sad - but everything is cyclical and we need to remember that there will be an adjustment - and when we do start to see a stronger economy - we'll look back on the 2007/2008 economy as a benchmark or baseline - compared with which we'll have a greater appreciation of the good times
i wish there was a simple answer - retail sucks right now - and giving $600 per tax payer back is a ridiculous effort to prop up the economy - it sounds good on paper - and it sure sounded like a positive injection to the economy when presented to the people - but if they wanted it to go back to the economy in the way of spending - perhaps they should have given out $600 in gift certificates to restaurants or consumer goods retailers.
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Post by Brian Luther on Apr 2, 2008 15:30:29 GMT -5
Getting back $600 bucks from our goverment is a start..... That will cover about 12 fill-ups at the gas station...... ;D
Rebounding the Cleveland economy will be a tedious effort, and it may be possible for National City Bank to recover too. A lot of people in northeast Ohio work for NCB, and their recovery would be a great relief for all of Cleveland.....
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Post by MarkD on Apr 2, 2008 19:32:39 GMT -5
Good idea on the gift certificates. Now that's thinking outside the perverbial box !!
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Post by Aussie Rob on Apr 2, 2008 19:59:56 GMT -5
I think it's more than just a run of the mill recession/downturn. I think we're seeing something far more fundamental, and it's been coming since 1975.
The US economy is reinventing itself, and this is part of the growing pains as it struggles to find out what, exactly, its main function is.
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Post by alison on Apr 3, 2008 12:14:28 GMT -5
I happened upon this article on the American Petroleum Institute (API) website: www.energytomorrow.org/energy_issues/truth_about_oil_gasoline_primer.pdfI thought it might be an interesting read for those of you discussing this topic. I am easily impressed by big colorful charts and graphs, which might be why I like the article . . . For those of you wondering why I would just "happen" upon the API website, I work in the natural gas industry. Alison |
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Post by Aussie Rob on Apr 3, 2008 12:54:26 GMT -5
You don't need to justify why you found it. I read sites like that all the time. It's a shame people are made to feel odd because they seek out info etc these days. Why is it a faux pas to be informed?
Thanks for the link!
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Post by Brandon on Apr 3, 2008 13:53:23 GMT -5
There's a bunch of great info in that API article!!
Although most reserves are foreign owned, it doesn't mean that U.S. and British companies can't make a profit off of those reserves. Who extracts the crude? Who refines it? Who ships it and brings it to market? Where are the largest markets? Why has the U.S. always had the lowest gas prices in the world if all the oil is foreign owned? I think that article sheds some light on why we have been in conflict in the middle east on and off for so many years.
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Post by keaveny on Apr 3, 2008 14:35:27 GMT -5
"Why are gas prices so high?"
I have been pondering this question for the last few weeks, employing all that I have learned over the course of my economics training.
I have considered that politicians tax the bejesus out of it.
So too, have I considered the enormous profits of oil companies.
I have considered the cost associated with setup, rigging, drilling, refining and delivering the product.
I've come to a rather different conclusion.
"Why is gas so expensive?"
Because in spite of all of the above, we continue to buy it.
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