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Post by frankie42 on Aug 20, 2010 16:57:32 GMT -5
well i biked 50 miles without stopping in about 4 hours. need advice from tri friends. the whole ride i drank 70oz of h2o and 1 gatorade. at 10 miles i had a GU packet. at 30 miles i had a soy joy bar and sport beans with caffeine. ran out of energy last 7 miles . plus my arms went numb. even too tired to drink water. and how the hell can i get faster? pisses me off. thanks i am feeling a bit defeated and sunburn...lol frankie
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Post by Aussie Rob on Aug 20, 2010 17:29:44 GMT -5
Depending on how hard you're going, you're probably burning 800ish calories an hour. Figure you have about 1500 calories in muscle glycogen stored, and you can probably absorb about 300-400 calories an hour. Beyond that you have your fat stores, but fat burns in a carbohydrate fire, so you need to be consuming stuff too the whole time. For a 4 hour ride, i probably wouldn't leave the house with anything less than 1200 calories my pockets/bottles. One easy way to add calories is to add carbo-pro (or bulk maltodextrin) to your fluids. It dissolves really well, and you can run a concentrated bottle with 800 calories in it without having to chew. Or, you could htfu
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Post by karming on Aug 20, 2010 18:14:21 GMT -5
I eat a Snickers marathon bar on the hour in addition to drinking a bottle of powerade. Comes out to approximately 400 calories/ hr. As for speed, your long ride might not be the best time to gain speed as it might be used to gain more endurance which will eventually lead to more speed. Use the shorter harder efforts during the week to gain power thereby leading to increased power on your long rides.
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Post by frankie42 on Aug 20, 2010 18:23:32 GMT -5
Rob you actually just cracked me up...i guess we can be friends afterall....lol!!!
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Post by jen on Aug 20, 2010 19:46:59 GMT -5
Frankie-keep in mind these are guys responding. A female is more like 250cal/hr. I myself (no means an expert) aim for 100 calories about every 25 min or so. I have been using larabars (bike) gels (run) and lots of water ( about a bottle an hour). Obviously we are all a little different and different things work for different people. If anything I'd recommend more frequent intake-ie you did good with a gel at 10 miles but then went 20 w/o anything. Also, check out Infinit website. A guy gave a good talk on nutrition from that company and I believe he said much of what he said was on their website. Hope that is helpful.
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Post by watchman on Aug 21, 2010 21:40:33 GMT -5
Frankie this may or may not apply to you but I will toss this out.
This summer I have been training for my first HIM. I have been running and cycling over 2 even 3 hour mark. At first I had the same things happen that you described. I had plenty of water and carbs yet I was getting totally wiped out after 2 hours.
Then I rode with Ray Gurnick and he was taking electrolite tabulets with sodium, magnesium, pottasium and calcium. I think the key is the sodium.
Withouy realizing it I was flushing out all the salt in my body. Not good. There is some dangerous condition that you can get when this happens. One of my running magazine warns about this.
Since then I have been taking one of these every half hour. The results have been amazing. I can ride 4 hours and never get that wiped out feeling.
Also after every one of these long sessions I would have a massive headache the rest of the day. Since using these tabulets I have never had a headache.
I hope this helps
MIKE
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Post by Aussie Rob on Aug 21, 2010 22:13:04 GMT -5
While salt tabs are great (and many people need/use them), i think you're selling yourself short, Mike.
You've trained a great deal, and in the process have conditioned your body to do certain things better (like ride long). Salt tabs no doubt help you.....but not as much as you've helped yourself.
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Post by kenb321 on Aug 22, 2010 8:10:35 GMT -5
It looks as though you need more of everything in your long rides. 4 hours is a huge effort and should not be taken lightly. First, look at your pre-ride nutrition. Next, look at your ride nutrition. Jen is correct that a female should consume about 250 cal/hour. The mix of calories is something for you to experiment with, no one plan works for everyone. Make sure you have a good mix of carbs and protein on your ride. Drink more water than you think you should.
If body parts are going numb, look at your bike fit. Riding long shows a lot of fit problems that don't show up on shorter rides. Make sure your upper body is nice and relaxed. If you are too tight on the upper body, it will make for a miserable neck ache.
Karming is also right that long rides are for endurance. Shorter sprint efforts and hills will make you stronger and faster.
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Post by frankie42 on Aug 22, 2010 12:19:35 GMT -5
thank you everybody! i had no idea! i was actually hesitant to eat what i did thinking i was gonna get sick. i have no experience with the nutritional aspects of endurance. i just plow through it. you guys have really opened my eyes. no wonder i felt like nuts. i am gonna try all the suggestions.
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Post by frankie42 on Aug 22, 2010 12:26:04 GMT -5
i dont know what my fingers were doing ( they have a mind of their own) i meant to say "felt like nuts" not nuts......duh...lol..guess there i something to proof reading .
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Post by karming on Aug 22, 2010 12:32:44 GMT -5
One other thing. Don't forget protein after the ride. I have found that I don't take enough protein during any given day. Many endurance athletes don't take this into consideration. We break down as much muscle s weight lifters. I aim for 1.2-1.5 g/kg utilizing supplements. It'll cut down the extra fat and carbs that you might be taking in. Also seemed to help me with recovery (anecdoctally, of course).
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Post by Brandon on Aug 22, 2010 13:09:30 GMT -5
Lots of good advice here.
Don't forget that not only does your bike nutrition have to get you through the ride, you have to be able to run off the bike without your stomach rebelling. So, I guess there is a reason to do bricks after all.
I cut my caloric intake by ~1/3 once I get off the bike.
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Post by jen on Aug 22, 2010 14:49:35 GMT -5
Good point Brandon. Yea, on my half "timing-wise" I probably should've eating one last thing on the bike but my tummy was feeling good so I held off and in 1.75hr run only had 3 gels. That is definitely a biggie...finding what you can hold down!
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Post by steve1835 on Aug 22, 2010 15:32:11 GMT -5
another plug for Infinit...Lots of good info. and the product solved my nutrition and hydration issues.
SP
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Post by karming on Aug 22, 2010 21:02:44 GMT -5
One other thing. I used to eat only gels and fluids for long rides and races but found that it didn't seem to hold me over well. That is why I went with the bars on the bike as the solid consistency tends to keep me more full. On the run, gels all the way. Also adding a banana in a blender with whatever drink adds an extra 100 calories and doesn't negatively affect taste. Kind of like a smoothie ;-)
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Post by Aussie Rob on Aug 22, 2010 22:31:12 GMT -5
Penut butter sandwiches. Smash em flat, cut em in half, perfect in a jersey pocket. Savory/salty.....cuts the sugar diet well.
As you can tell, there are dozens of ways to skin a cat. Try everything.....just make sure you're eating.
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Post by Tiffany on Aug 23, 2010 19:53:00 GMT -5
Wow, Frankie, you are lucky!! Every time I say "nuts" "crap" or even "d**n" ... the moderators bleep me!! Just watch!!! You'd think I talk like a trucker ... well I kind of do, but I'm not dropping F-bombs! I figured since these words can now squeek into the 10 pm tv slots, I'd be able to use them here, too. But, NO!! I get bleeped!!! I'm a highly educated woman ... yet sometimes there's just no substitute phrase to "feel like nuts"! That's just how I want to say it. And everyone else can just HTFU. Bleep away moderators!!!!
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Post by frankie42 on Aug 24, 2010 9:36:56 GMT -5
tiffany you really crack me up...OF ALL PEOPLE YOU DESERVE TO SAY ANY SWEAR WORD YOU WANT AT ANY TIME!!!!!! (as far as i am concerned..lol)
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Post by jimdehner on Aug 25, 2010 8:41:58 GMT -5
Frankie - you got a lot a good advice here - listen to Jen - your body can only take in about 250 calories per hour - anything more and it will just sit there- and you will be burning about the 800 calories that Rob mentioned - clearly you will be running a deficit - you want your total fluids, gels and solids to total 250 calories per hour - think like a powerebar or goo and at 100-150 calories and a bike bottle of Gatorade Endurance is approximatly 150 calories - so you are looking a a powerebar and almost a full bike bottle EVERY HOUR - I have a hard time getting that down so I go the P/B sandwich route - 1/4 sandwich every 20 min plus my own mix of multodextrin and HEED - (I can get about 1000 calories in a bike bottle so i drink less of the mix and more just straight water) The key is you have to find what works for you - so experiment till you find the balance - Now about the numbness in the arms/fingers - lighten up on the handlebars - don't get married to the aero position - sit up once in a while, and if your holding on with a deathgrip - loosen up the grip - you may also want to make sure your bike fit is correct and there is not too much weight forward - the guys at BA can help you out there
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Post by kabaker13 on Aug 25, 2010 11:12:43 GMT -5
Hi Frankie,
One of the things I like and find works well for me are the homemade rice cakes that Allen Lim had Team Garmin on last year.
3 fresh eggs, scrambled and broken up into small pieces 1 dry cup sushi rice (follow cooking directions) Dried fruit of your choice, finely chopped 2 tablespoons honey
Transfer all the items to a shallow pan, mix together, and firmly press down to stick it all together. I use waxed paper over my hands and found it works better than a spatula. Let everything cool completely (the longer it sits in the fridge the better) and cut into bars sized to fit in a jersey pocket, wrap in foil.
I have Celiac disease, so these bars work better for my digestive system than other things which have made me either uncomfortable or ill while training. If you try them I hope you like them!
I carry about 4 of these and my homemade energy gel (honey, molasses, salt) in addition to water and Gatorade, and fuel roughly every 45 minutes to an hour.
Happy training!
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