strength training in offseason

[gvt]

Any ideas regarding weight lifting for power during the offseason for a month or two in preparation for olympic distance triathlons?

[MattCollister]

Use barbells. Do squats, deadlifts, presses, power cleans, bench presses. Heavy weights, low reps.

[MarkD]

Here's a past post on the subject from a few years back:

clevetriclub.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=advice&action=display&thread=2028

[Brandon]

I combine my "strength" training with my flexibility training..a.k.a. yoga/pilates and have done some circuit training type stuff in the past as well. I don't see the correlation between power in the gym (i.e. strength/resistance training) and power, as we know it, by triathlon standards....although there very well may be an injury prevention benefit that comes with weight training, especially for older athletes. That said, I wouldn't want to get in a fistfight with Collister or anyone else who uses barbells on a regular basis

Oh, to address your original question here are links:

www.trainingbible.com/pdf/Triathlon_Strength_Program.pdf

www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/index.asp?catid=100

I read an article somewhere a while back that had the strength training program for the U.S. olympic team. It was very high rep/low resistance based program...like 1 or 2 sets of 40 reps per muscle group.

[MattCollister]

Now, Brandon,

Judging by the way you put the word STRENGTH in quotes when describing your own habits; and by your fear of physical confrontation with people who have an affinity for barbell work, I am wondering if you, once upon a time, had a bad experience at a Gold's gym franchise.

[jeffjls]

Although I have been training and not doing too many tris yet, I am a huge fan of performing 2-3 different barbell and/or db complexes a few times a week to work on strength, keep your heartrate flying (i hit 170s), and not get too much bulk. Example barbell:

12 reps each exercise, no rest until all four movements completed, perform three sets - 1-2 minutes between sets:

Deadlift x12
Bent-Over Row x12
Push Press x12
Back Squat x12

This will break you - light weight to start - about 50-55% of bodyweight.

Hope this gives you an idea.

Jeff

[Brandon]

Dec 7, 2009 14:17:47 GMT -5 MattCollister said:

Now, Brandon,

Judging by the way you put the word STRENGTH in quotes when describing your own habits; and by your fear of physical confrontation with people who have an affinity for barbell work, I am wondering if you, once upon a time, had a bad experience at a Gold's gym franchise.

Once, at the gym while going through my high rep, low resistence routine I was called spaghetti arms by someone who obviously spent a great deal of time with heavy free weights. I would tell you what happened to that guy after he said that but I wouldn't want to embarrass said weight lifter if he reads this forum

For the record, I have since removed resistence training from my routine.

Actually, what I was trying to convey is that I don't believe there is any relationship between strength with the barbells, dumbbells, etc. (i.e. heavy weight, low rep) and "strength" by triathlon standards (going faster swimming, biking or running). I will admit that I am open to the idea that I could be wrong about this, but given my limited time to devote to training I opt out of spending time with the weights. Instead, I would choose to swim with a pull buoy/paddles, do one-legged and overgear drills with a low cadence/big gear and run hill repeats in addition to yoga/pilates to build 'strength.'

If looking good, fighting (real fighting...I'm not talking about the swim start) or 400M runs were part of triathlon I would say that we would be talking about the same type of 'strength' in both cases.

[MattCollister]

There he goes again.

Brandon, I think you are again confusing bodybuilding with strength training. Two totally different things. Bodybuilders want to increase the size of front delts, pecs, biceps and quadriceps, wear Zubaz pants, and drink Muscle Milk (whatever that is). A variant style eliminates quads--this is "California style" and its proponents are "California Bodybuilders". I am guessing the guy you had a run-in with over your spaghetti arms was a bodybuilder. You probably cut in front of him (inadvertently, no doubt) on the pec dec, or the full-body mirror, setting off a 'roid rage of volcanic proportion.

The original poster asked, "Any ideas regarding weight lifting for power during the offseason for a month or two in preparation for olympic distance triathlons?." So I suggested the most basic, most effective strength training movements to develop the posterior chain--the muscles from which athletic power comes.

The bike / swim drills you suggested are excellent, but as it's December (not May) and athletes in the northern hemisphere are thinking about eggnog, in-laws and base training, I think suggesting more time moving iron around would be more beneficial advice.

[jen]

I have been reading some about strength training having been unable to run...my doctor recommended it saying it can be more effective for weight loss as you are building muscle which will increase your BMR. I've started doing some things and I think it will prove to be beneficial for me particularly in the swim and on the bike. I already feel stronger in the pool. I've been doing some things from "Lift like a man look like a goddess." (ha, ha laugh I know) But so far I like it.

I have also recently started reading an interesting book Racing Weight which discusses determining your weight for peak performance (i.e. being lean but not too lean to lose muscle). It mentions as you have Matt about this time of year being off-season where we may indulge a bit more which he says is ok just keep it in check but also recommends doing some strength training to help keep some pounds off.

[Aussie Rob]

I lift in the winter for overall well being. But i do think it makes be better in the summer. Stronger core allows me to stay aero longer. Strong lower back doesn't have it screaming at me late in a long ride. Building explosive power in the legs seem to help my sprinting and climbing.

Now since it doesn't really seem like anyone really knows if it helps or not (although many experts will claim to one way or another) i think there is one metric as amateurs we can use. Pro triathletes lift, and while they are the fastest in the world....their goal is typically the same as ours....to get faster at triathlon. Good enough for me.

[MarkD]

Aussie just likes saying the work "explosive" in regards to himself. I'd make fun of him, but, since he gets about 50 yards ahead of me on every hill, I'll just sit back and take my medicine until I unlock the explosive secrets of hill climbing...

[jimdehner]

thought i'd weigh in on this - I started included regular resistance training in my winter workouts last year - this summer i had a lot more endurance for long workouts and for races - i've got them in the schedule this year - 2x per week focusing on core and upper body -

[watchman]

From 1999 to 2006 I did alot of weight lifting ( body building) I wanted muscle mass. I did a small amount of cardio. I hated endurance sports.

With so many kids I realized a strong heart was worth more than big triceps so I switched to endurance sports. I totally dropped doing any weight lifting from end of 2006 to 2009. My wife did not like me losing my arms and shoulders so I started again. I have to admit . It was like taking a drug. I love the feeling you get from lifting. I kept it to one upper body session and one lower body session a week. It seems as though it helped my performance in the 3 triathlon sports. There was more power in swimming, bike and running. It seems like the repetition of the endurance sports on "certain" muscle groups cause an imbalance in other parts on the body. Weight lifting seems to correct this.
Overall I would say it helped and did not hurt in triathlons.

Matt wrote something important. There is a difference in body building and strength training. I would add another category and that is lifting for endurance strength.

Body building you are trying to incorporate as many muscle fibers as you can. You do many different lifts on the same body part and at many different angles and variations. Usually a weight you can lift reps of 12, 10, 8, 6 12, and 12, adding weight each set. Each body part may have as many as 4 different exercises. This gives the huge size and definition. It looks great but is not very useful in any sport.

For strength training you are trying to strengthen a fewer number of muscle fibers but making them very strong. Usually heavier weight and only reps 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. This give more strength but not as much size. This is why power lifters are not very "cut".

The third class of lifting I would say is better for endurance sports . This is lifting a lighter weight and doing reps of 30, 28, 26, 24 ect. I have been doing the same workouts as in the past just increased the reps and reduced the weight. This takes the stress off the joints and builds the muscle fibers that are more used for endurance.

For uppe rI do flat and incline bench ( with barbells ), Lat pull downs ( mimicking swim stroke), Military and Arnold's for shoulders, wide and close grip curls, seated and lying tricep curls, front pulls and rows
For lower I do squats ( I hate and love them) , straight leg dead lifts, lunges, leg extensions , leg curls and calf raises.

I do core abs and back 3 times a week before going to bed.

I hope this helps just my 2 cents.

I have a question. Back in 2006 when I decided to go for a marathon I had a strange goal. To do and marathon and be able to bench 300lbs. Well I messed up my rotator cuff and only got up to 285 on the bench and then I broke my ankle and did not do the marathon.

These two goals seem mutually exclusive. I was wondering . Have any of you marathoners been able to do both? At the same time? Meaning when you were ready to do the marathon could you bench 300lbs. I have met at least two in this club I think could do it.
Matt C. and Tim ? ( can't remember last name)

I know it is a stupid goal but I like challenges.

By the way. I have grown to love endurance sports. I get a different kind of "high" from them. It is great to do both. I plan to do them all through next summer except right before a race.

As the Aussie said. If the best do it why not us?

mike

[philjolliff]

Dec 9, 2009 13:32:55 GMT -5 watchman said:

I have a question. Back in 2006 when I decided to go for a marathon I had a strange goal. To do and marathon and be able to bench 300lbs. Well I messed up my rotator cuff and only got up to 285 on the bench and then I broke my ankle and did not do the marathon.

These to goals seem mutually exclusive. I was wondering . Have any of you marathoners been able to do both? At the same time? Meaning when you were ready to do the marathon could you bench 300lbs.

Challenge accepted. : ) That could be a fun personal goal.

Actually I would imagine there are a lot of above average marathoners that could bench 300 lbs.

I enjoy strength training in the offseason. I feel a lot stronger on the bike after a few weeks of weight training. The Triathlete Training Bible advises a pretty good amount of weight training in the offseason with everything from low reps high weight to high reps low weight in various cycles.

[Brandon]

First off, sorry to the original poster for getting a bit off course from the original question....hope you find some useful stuff in this thread.

I admit I may have been blurring the line between stereotypes associated with bodybuilding and strength training. While they may be useful to group together for jokes it is true that there are major differences between the two. Also, there is a big physiological difference between muscular strength and muscular endurance. Muscular strength has no direct benefit to a triathlete IMO. Triathlon is a sport of muscular endurance.

Sure, muscular strength can benefit overall 'well-being' and help with injury prevention. But the amount of time I have to devote to triathlon training is limited, so I choose not to strength train. I try to gain 'power' through swim, bike and run specific movements to get the most out of my time. The yoga/pilates is meant to address muscular imbalances, strength and flexibility all at once. Again, best use of my time IMO. All of these workouts are done in Zone 2 or lower, so it is approriate for December assuming that a de-training period has taken place sometime during the fall.

All that said, if time were not a major limiter of my training routine I would include strength training for injury prevention benefits, probably something like Friel suggests. If pro triathletes had to cut sport specific muscular endurance training from their routine (even in December) to get in some weight training I doubt they would do it. I know the original poster asked about strength training for oly distance, but I think it is reasonable to ask if weights are the best use of time. Once an athlete determines they want to devote the time, then we can debate muscular strength vs. endurance or how to periodize and give attention to both.

[MattCollister]

Brandon, I am just giving you a hard time.

Sorry about dredging up that awful incident between us at Gold's Gym several years back.

[timritt]

its all about the bench press. more is better. all else is fluff.

[MattCollister]

Dec 11, 2009 14:20:03 GMT -5 timritt said:

its all about the bench press. more is better. all else is fluff.

Isn't that why you had trouble finding a wetsuit that fit?

[Jack Carney]

Matt I am buying your original theory. Brandon was roughed up in the gym by a burly conservative who probably had on a W shirt and made fun of him. I am sure Obama will outlaw this type of behavior soon by passing some kind of law making it a hate crime to make fun of liberal Democrats at which time I will be banished to Gitmo which will now be used to house dangerous conservatives after the harmless terrorists have been moved to the states

In all seriousness, when I first started working out seriously I was not doing a lot of strength training, but had been running fairly consistently for some years. One of the first revelations I had after thinking I didn't need much lower body strength training because I ran, was how much easier it became to run after building those muscles. That is when I began running long. There is no doubt in my mind that strength training will help you to be a better athlete overall regardless of what you do and I believe it will prevent injuries. That being said I know there is endless debate and studies showing the correctness of each argument so in the end, experiment, and do what makes you happy and keeps you performing your best.

[Tim Edwards]

Brandon,

You are strength training by doing arm pulls in the pool, large gear bike intervals, and hill running. You are strengthening the same muscle groups that are needed to Tri. You are specifically training these muscles for power rather than strength by doing these efforts. Strength is good for injury prevention and core stability and that is what I do in the off season. My lifting routine is high reps and low weight from about November thru February / March and then I transition to all sport specific strength / power workouts. This is called specificity (training by doing the movements associated with your sport) and what every triathlete (and endurance athlete) should be doing after their off season / preseason is over and the base / build parts of the year kick in.

I have seen a great increase in my swimming due to weight lifting for muscular endurance as well as lots of swimming! Coming from a cycling background, I naturally incorporate lots of on-bike strength training as spring begins and the roads have less slop on them. The same with running.

What I do see is the core is ignored by many since this is not strengthened in typical TRI training during a season. Specific work needs to be done to strengthen this and maintain it throughout the season. Keep up the crunches / pilates / etc!