Running Experts: Advice Needed

[keaveny]

I have really been focusing on the run lately and, while I have seen considerable improvement, I am trying to identify a plateau before it happens and change up my training to get where I want to be.

Bear in mind, during the weekdays, I have about an hour to train. Saturdays and Sundays I generally have more time, but I usually don't run on these days. So here is what I am doing (roughly).

M: Long Run
T: Tempo
W: Hills
TH: Long Run
F: Brick

Again, it may not be actually this order on these days, but I am generally getting five runs a week.

Any recommendations for adding/enhancing (speedwork?)? And being a newbie can you give me a specific regimen?

Thanks.

[Steve Yutzy]

What are you training for? (tri, marathon, 5k, general fitness, etc.)

I usually try to spread out my "hard" running days (long run, tempo, intervals, hills) so that I'm doing no more than 2 days in a row of hard stuff.
So a typical week for me (right now) would look like this:
Sun - Long run
Mon - EZ run/Swim
Tues - Lift/Track intervals
Wed - Swim
Thurs - Lift/EZ trail run
Fri - Tempo run or hills
Sat - Bike/brick

If you've never done it before, speedwork on the track or in the middle of a run (fartlek!!!) can definitely help to build some power in your legs and get your body used to running fast. Hills have a very similar benefit.

[jimdehner]

I agree with Steve that speed work will go a long way to improve your performance but there is another question for you - you say you have more time on the weekend but don't run - are you doing other training? I ask because it sounds like a 5 day running training schedule and a 2 day "big workout" schedule - you need some down time - Steve is using eazy days - days off are good too - I'm running 3 or 4 days, biking 3, and swimming 3 but every Friday is an off day ( I have the advantage of being able to train in the morning and evening). Also consider a 4 week cycle with 3 weeks of build followed by a recovery week that is no more than 50% of your big training week

[keaveny]

I am training for everything from 5k to a possible half mary this year as well as a du. No tri for now.

I should mention my second long run of the week (between hills and the brick) is very slow and easy (maybe it should be termed more of a recovery run).

The weekends to this point have ended up me being occupied with work around home, but I hope with warmer weather and longer days I can hit my longer workouts on the weekend.

I am pretty strong on the bike and I am focusing on considerably improving my run right now. That is why I focused on the running question and I am being very cautious (after a stress fracture last year) not to overdo my runs.

Like I said I am happy with the progress but don't want my muscles or mind to get complacent and looking for a way to switch it up.

Make sense?

[MarkD]

If you are doing this for general fitness, you are fine. You WILL improve on your running by running - especially if you are including harder effort stuff (tempo and faster).

However, I really think you should pick a key race - either running or Du and plan your training toward that goal. Having a "5K to maybe half mary" racing plan isn't a plan. Since you think you might do a 1/2 mary, I would recommend picking a 1/2 race and setting up a training plan to get you there - even if you don't race it, it will focus your efforts. Most importantly, you'll get the proper base under you...



ps: I am NO expert.

[Steve Yutzy]

Just a few other guidelines to keep in mind:
-Increase no more than 10% from week to week in total mileage or long run distance
-Like Jim said, some sort of periodic cycle is nice in that it allows your body to recover more
-If you have a little more recovery between hard workouts you'll get more out of them
-For myself at least, it always helps to have a goal. For example, I knew I'd never get my butt in gear this spring without plopping down the cash for a June marathon
-Chocolate milk is an awesome recovery drink (although I've heard good things about beer and wings as well...)

I also agree with Durno, I'm no "expert", more of a "reasonably proficient amateur"

[Matt Luck]

The best advice I can give you is to go out and purchase Jack Daniels Distance running formula.
The book will more than pay for itself in what you will learn.

My simple advice is what is your current fitness level for a 5k? this is what you should base all of your current training paces from.

Simple words of advice. Most runners will run to slow for the training runs, too fast for their intervals and have no clue what a tempo run entails.

the book will outline workouts for your current fitness level and work you to achieve your goals. I will caution you that this is all about running and not multi training. This is where plugging into many of the experience triathletes will be beneficial.

If you want my advice about the most single most important workout besides your long run, it would be a tempo run done properly you provide you the best results and the least amount of risk.

If you do not want to buy the book but want to know which paces to run visit this website, not mine, just one I discovered. Matter of fact every triathletes should visit this site to learn what pace they should be doing for any specific run.

www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm

enter your current pace and distance and click vdot calculator.

Beyond this is a whole other entry. Feel free to contact me for further discussion

[MarkD]

I concur with Matt on all points - especially on the tempo advice - especially for newer runners.

[keaveny]

Mar 22, 2009 13:15:00 GMT -5 Matt Luck said:

The best advice I can give you is to go out and purchase Jack Daniels Distance running formula.
The book will more than pay for itself in what you will learn.

My simple advice is what is your current fitness level for a 5k? this is what you should base all of your current training paces from.

Simple words of advice. Most runners will run to slow for the training runs, too fast for their intervals and have no clue what a tempo run entails.

the book will outline workouts for your current fitness level and work you to achieve your goals. I will caution you that this is all about running and not multi training. This is where plugging into many of the experience triathletes will be beneficial.

If you want my advice about the most single most important workout besides your long run, it would be a tempo run done properly you provide you the best results and the least amount of risk.

If you do not want to buy the book but want to know which paces to run visit this website, not mine, just one I discovered. Matter of fact every triathletes should visit this site to learn what pace they should be doing for any specific run.

www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm

enter your current pace and distance and click vdot calculator.

Beyond this is a whole other entry. Feel free to contact me for further discussion

Thanks for all the advice. I have been thinking about Mark's advice that I don't really have a plan. That is true; I am on vacation and I am headed shopping, know how much I have to spend, just not sure which stores I will specifically patronize yet.

My "plan" is entering races when I feel like it and to be prepared at any time to "race" (not merely survive) anything up to a Half Mary this year. Maybe this puts me in the category of general fitness and not athlete, although it seems to me that I am methodically training just not sure exactly what for yet.

I guess I should make a half mary or an equally challenging du my "A" race and build to that.

I have used the pacing calculators. The problem I have with some of them is that the calculations seem to be more accurate for longer distance runners.

For example, the Tempo run (as they define it) is 10% of your weekly total or 60m whichever is less.

For me that is around 35 miles a week. Therefore my tempo run should max out at 3.5 miles. The pace the calculator instructs me to run is far too slow in my opinion. It is essentially my 5k pace +, or it seems to me it should be. It is instructing me to add about 40sec to my 5k pace which would seem like crawling to me for a Tempo.

In fact, the pace it tells me to run my Tempo at is closer to what I typically achieve for my Long Run pace.

Maybe this says more about how I feel when I run. I always get faster on my long runs. Not intentionally, I just feel better and more comfortable the longer I run.

Some of the best advice I have gotten here is "listen to your body." While I have been pretty dogmatic in my pacing, I always have tried to allow for bumping things up if I feel good.

Does any of this make sense?

[Matt Luck]

I hope you don't mean a 60 mile tempo run.

Daniels explains that each tempo run should be no longer than 20 minutes. After you get to the 20 minutes mark there is an adjustment that needs to be made to your time.

What is the 5k pace that you are using for your runs?

I will look over and suggest a time. I recommend that you perform your tempo runs in a controlled environment, something that is flat, accurately measured, so you can get your splits every 400m. A reminder that a tempo can be broken down the following ways
sets of 400m cruise intervals with 10 sec rest.
sets 1 mile tempo with 1 min rest.
3 mile continuous tempo run.

Listen to your body on an easy run is great advice but not for a tempo/interval run. No if your body does not let you perform to your capacity then yes listen to it but running faster than your prescribed run is not beneficial.

[keaveny]

Mar 26, 2009 10:59:51 GMT -5 Matt Luck said:

I hope you don't mean a 60 mile tempo run.

Daniels explains that each tempo run should be no longer than 20 minutes. After you get to the 20 minutes mark there is an adjustment that needs to be made to your time.

What is the 5k pace that you are using for your runs?

I will look over and suggest a time. I recommend that you perform your tempo runs in a controlled environment, something that is flat, accurately measured, so you can get your splits every 400m. A reminder that a tempo can be broken down the following ways
sets of 400m cruise intervals with 10 sec rest.
sets 1 mile tempo with 1 min rest.
3 mile continuous tempo run.

Listen to your body on an easy run is great advice but not for a tempo/interval run. No if your body does not let you perform to your capacity then yes listen to it but running faster than your prescribed run is not beneficial.

Matt,

I am using 24:14 for my 5k time. I need to understand and get the tempo run down. Thanks for the help.