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Taxes
Feb 20, 2008 15:33:43 GMT -5
Post by Brandon on Feb 20, 2008 15:33:43 GMT -5
Indeed, a conservative republican from Florida introduced that bill. It was vetoed by Clinton twice and he signed it the third time it came through the congress......much to the dismay of many Dem's. I agree our high GDP has quite a bit to do with our nat'l. debt., I just don't think that social welfare programs are the cause, unless you consider social security one of these undesirable social programs. At one point in time, during the great depression the federal government owned 25% of the home loans.......and they lost their ass on default, or should I say the taxpayers did. But we rebounded, and we'll get over this housing crisis. Very true with the credit cards...the out of control spending is not just the governments problem. One thing I hope we all realize is that spending is no longer a partisan issue. The debt problem as we know started with Reagan cutting taxes but not cutting spending and every administration has dealt with a HUGE problem since. Here's an interesting, and highly partisan, bit of insight on nat'l. debt. www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html
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Taxes
Feb 20, 2008 15:56:17 GMT -5
Post by watchman on Feb 20, 2008 15:56:17 GMT -5
Brandon
I can tell you think things out and are not just a parrot.
keep it up.
The key is to look at evidence not just opinions and to be able to tell the difference.
mike
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Taxes
Feb 20, 2008 16:13:44 GMT -5
Post by Brent on Feb 20, 2008 16:13:44 GMT -5
I don't claim to know everything, thats absurd! I just happen to have my politics, and they're based on what i DO know. I will say this. When discussing the nuts and bolts of economics, life experience pales in comparison to a few formal econ classes. How often does the multiplier effect, excess capacity, cyclical/frictional/structural unemployment, comparative advantage, increasing opportunity costs, GDP price index come up in conversation? Almost everyone i talk to about the economy only has a vague idea of a handful of concepts....be they 20 years old, or 60. Hell, people are walking around complaining about the rebate cheques when they clearly don't know the sound economic theory behind it. If you don't ever truly learn it, how can you debate it? Like you say, i would never argue with the seasoned tri vets on this board....because i don't know enough. Do you really consider borrowing more money from China, to give people money (which polls show the majority intend to use to pay off debts), sound economic theory? BTW, rebate is a misnomer. By definition it could only be a rebate if you paid in the first place. Considering the bottom third didn't pay, to them it is called a handout.
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Taxes
Feb 20, 2008 16:44:35 GMT -5
Post by Aussie Rob on Feb 20, 2008 16:44:35 GMT -5
You can call it whatever you like, but i call it stimulus, which is exactly what it is.
Ideally, people will go out and buy stuff. If as you say many people pay off debt, then that's the next best thing because it still frees up the populations finances, making them good consumers again.
As for where the money is coming from. I agree that the national debt is a problem that needs to be addressed, and it needs to come from a reduction in non-infrastructural federal spending (THE WAR!). If the government wants to spend, give the money to consumers for them to spend it, or spend it on public works. Stuff that will create a bounce in the economy.
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Taxes
Feb 20, 2008 16:51:44 GMT -5
Post by Brandon on Feb 20, 2008 16:51:44 GMT -5
The key is to look at evidence not just opinions and to be able to tell the difference. mike For sure! How "evidence," or data is collected is another ball of worms, but I agree that it's important to try and sift through all of the opinions. Unfortunately, It's becoming more and more difficult to tell what the candidates will actually do while in office because all they are interested in doing while campaigning is tapping into peoples emotions to capture votes. I told myself when I saw the pres. thread I wouldn't comment on a political thread.....but once an economists views were posted I couldn't help it
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Taxes
Feb 20, 2008 17:35:29 GMT -5
Post by watchman on Feb 20, 2008 17:35:29 GMT -5
The key is to look at evidence not just opinions and to be able to tell the difference. mike Unfortunately, It's becoming more and more difficult to tell what the candidates will actually do while in office because all they are interested in doing while campaigning is tapping into peoples emotions to capture votes. That is the most insightful and profound statement on this thread. says it all mike
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Taxes
Feb 20, 2008 17:44:51 GMT -5
Post by Charlie on Feb 20, 2008 17:44:51 GMT -5
Brent, That makes agreement number 2 for us. I do not agree with the "rebate". I think of it as a loan I would never accept. The cost for the administration for this rebate makes little sense to me. We will have to pay it back.
Don't discount the knowledge of the youth. They are learning things we will never know.
These two threads are fun, but lets scale back the "I am better then you" attitude and name calling. Being referred to as a socialist of fascist may at times be accurate, but most of the time it comes off as a way of squeezing certain beliefs into more extreme Ideology's. We as multi-sport triathletes are mostly very broad minded people. It is the nature of our sport. Jack is conservative in his views on many political issues but on a personal level he is one of the most giving and compassionate men I have known. Politically we are polar opposites but as a human I can only strive to achieve his level of kindness and commitment to his fellow and community. I assume he knows I feel this way.
My point is, this can be fun and educational, but lets maintain respect for each other.
Peace Hippys!
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Taxes
Feb 20, 2008 22:03:23 GMT -5
Post by Jack Carney on Feb 20, 2008 22:03:23 GMT -5
These two threads are fun, but lets scale back the "I am better then you" attitude and name calling. Being referred to as a socialist of fascist may at times be accurate, but most of the time it comes off as a way of squeezing certain beliefs into broader Ideologys. We as multi-sport triathletes are mostly very broad minded people. It is the nature of our sport. Jack is conservative in his views on many political issues but on a personal level he is one of the most giving and compassionate men I have known. Politically we are polar opposites but as a human I can only strive to achieve his level of kindness and commitment to his fellow and community. I assume he knows I feel this way. Peace Hippys! Thanks Charlie but how do you explain knocking me off my bike last time you wanted to pass? Just kidding. I agree we can all have fun and be passionate about our beliefs while maintaining respect for each other and I believe we all understand no matter how heated it can get on these threads we are all having fun doing it and getting a rise is part of the fun. Sometimes written communication can be misinterpreted also and thing said with tongue in cheek are taken literally. You and I are indeed polar opposites politically but would help each other or any others on this forum or in our neighborhoods etc... who needed it at the drop of a hat. I am really more liberal on a social issues than most would imagine from my posts (EG I am a strong advocate for stem cell research ) and am open minded to the ideas of the other side. I would love to see a candidate unite us but wonder if it will ever happen. This forum is a very cool place and I have been amazed from day one the amount of willingness of everyone here to help other members regardless of what they needed. I dont think that will ever change due to the type of people we are and a bit of heckling will just lead to more good natured fun and teasing out on the courses.
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Taxes
Feb 20, 2008 22:39:41 GMT -5
Post by Charlie on Feb 20, 2008 22:39:41 GMT -5
I think the last time I tried to pass you on the bike, you were 15 minutes ahead.
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Taxes
Feb 25, 2008 10:33:58 GMT -5
Post by benmiralia on Feb 25, 2008 10:33:58 GMT -5
If this thread accomplished nothing else it has introduced me to a term I have never heard before. Ball of worms. Intriguing and really unsettling at the same time.
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Taxes
Feb 25, 2008 10:48:18 GMT -5
Post by Brandon on Feb 25, 2008 10:48:18 GMT -5
A ball of worms.....intriguing and unsettling indeed. It's a ball of wax and can of worms all in one!!!!
Apologies to anyone who was bored and/or offended by my previous rants on this thread. Politics, and tax policy, can get me quite excited. So excited I start speaking in tongues and/or making up new cliche's ;D
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Taxes
Feb 26, 2008 13:03:56 GMT -5
Post by Eric on Feb 26, 2008 13:03:56 GMT -5
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